Is it worth continuing?

mark057

I think only you can answer your own question whether to continue your AAT studies or not.

Each of us study for different reasons but if you have come this far then it makes sense to continue to completion. I personally taught myself at technician level with the Osbourne books and passed PEV, DFS, BTC and PCR in the December 2007 exam sitting, first time, so it can be done.

As for work experience it can be a catch 22 situation because you need experience but can't obtain it until you are furnished with an opportunity.

I would recommend considering voluntary work, which will at least give you a practical grounding in accounts and something to place onto your CV. You may also consider temping for a while in basic ledger jobs or try to find a mixed role which incorporates accounts work.

Finally, I wouldn't worry if agencies like Hayes don't want you on their books because they are only going to be looking for candidates with a strong background in accountancy, which is clearly going to be accentuated by the current competition for jobs.

Try to look at some smaller local commercial agencies who might be better placed to help you. Just because an agency is big and appears influential does not always make them the best to deal with.

I know it's frustrating but bear in mind the many thousands, including myself, who are having to cope with such a limited jobs market at present.

Lets hope things improve and the economy grows next year; however, I can only see a worsening economic picture and retracting economy with the flood of public spending cuts which are coming next year.

MOHMEDSALIM PATEL

It it worth doing it ? Yes or Not

I have passed my Technician level last year and to increase my chances for accountancy related employment have had studied payroll up to level 3.

started searching to utilising gained skills and knowledge since i was in intermediate level.

only had 9 interviewed but no joy. Feedback is no experience and now a days i have been getting reply before the closing date.

Yes, positive side of keep studying is as and when this depressing situation is over there will be more chances to get study related positions.

Since than nothing but to wait.

Each individual have to make his/her own decision according to own finance position.

Rachey

exam panic wrote: »

Let get real at the moment all the cut this government want to do I don't think any job will create for next few years .so I hope AAT WILL STOP training .

It is a ridiculous suggestion. Why the hell would AAT stop training people? There are many school / college leavers who start studying AAT, imagine telling them to wait 2 years, they'd either sign on or study something else! If they chose to wait then it's like starting afresh leaving it so long. I've never heard a more ridiculous suggestion in my life. With the exception of the mortgage payment one.... lol. (I like the suggestion obviously but its never going to happen!)

exam panic

Rachey wrote: »

It is a ridiculous suggestion. Why the hell would AAT stop training people? There are many school / college leavers who start studying AAT, imagine telling them to wait 2 years, they'd either sign on or study something else! If they chose to wait then it's like starting afresh leaving it so long. I've never heard a more ridiculous suggestion in my life. With the exception of the mortgage payment one.... lol. (I like the suggestion obviously but its never going to happen!)

Suggestion and idea always welcome rachey

PGM

exam panic wrote: »

Suggestion and idea always welcome rachey

I suggest now is a more important time to study than any in recent history. Every advantage you can get over other applicants counts!

rawtec

mark057 wrote: »

I think only you can answer your own question whether to continue your AAT studies or not.

Each of us study for different reasons but if you have come this far then it makes sense to continue to completion. I personally taught myself at technician level with the Osbourne books and passed PEV, DFS, BTC and PCR in the December 2007 exam sitting, first time, so it can be done.

As for work experience it can be a catch 22 situation because you need experience but can't obtain it until you are furnished with an opportunity.

I would recommend considering voluntary work, which will at least give you a practical grounding in accounts and something to place onto your CV. You may also consider temping for a while in basic ledger jobs or try to find a mixed role which incorporates accounts work.

Finally, I wouldn't worry if agencies like Hayes don't want you on their books because they are only going to be looking for candidates with a strong background in accountancy, which is clearly going to be accentuated by the current competition for jobs.

Try to look at some smaller local commercial agencies who might be better placed to help you. Just because an agency is big and appears influential does not always make them the best to deal with.

I know it's frustrating but bear in mind the many thousands, including myself, who are having to cope with such a limited jobs market at present.

Lets hope things improve and the economy grows next year; however, I can only see a worsening economic picture and retracting economy with the flood of public spending cuts which are coming next year.

Thank you for your advice Mark057,

I will be starting back at college tomorrow, a brand new build at that!

When time allows I will also go and chat to some of the smaller agencies, even if it means widening my choices to non-accounts related work but office based at least.

I think that employers find it difficult to relate my current work, taken when nothing else was available, as incompatible with an accounting role. So a step to a similar environment may help my cause.

I wouldn't say that it's good to know that others are struggling, but at least I'm not alone in these fiercely competitive times.

Regards,
Rob

rawtec

Back at college today! The hard work starts here, well when the text books eventually arrive. They've been on order since mid-August!

Contacted a small local agency who wouldn't take me on their books, so I didn't even bother with the rest - what's the point, same old story "we'd struggle to find you work even as general admin', try voluntary work"!

Considering there isn't even much of that around, plus with a mortgage and two children I also need to make a living without working for free. I already lose one days pay going to college.

Time for some more thinking to be done!!!

Bluewednesday

How about treasurers role at the children's school PTA? That's how I started

mark057

Hi Rawtec,

I'm afraid with the job market being so competitive many agencies will give inexperieced candidates short shrift.

The old joy of supply and demand in action.

If the agencies are not helping much then voluntary work in an evening or weekend might be a possibility. I can't stress enough how important it is to get that first vital accounts experience on your CV.

I built up some purchase ledger experience at first in some temp roles then got some better overall accounts experience in the voluntary sector.

You may wish to think about helping out a small community group. The commitment would not be that great and you could still work full-time.

I used to help at a local branch of the British Lung Foundation. The work was really basic but I helped them to improve some of their bookkeeping procedures and there is always the chance to make the role your own e.g. sourcing funding for the groups.

Try looking at www.do-it.org. The site will give you a flavour of the voluntary opportunities in your area. I would also use google to find out where your local volunteer bureau is and send them an e-mail or give them a call. I'm sure they will help you to find a role to fit into your lifestyle.

Please don't give up now. The economy will improve eventually and with experience and further qualifications you will be in a better position to pick and choose your roles.

Also don't be deterred by recruitment agencies. Like some employers some of them can't see past the end of their own noses and need to employ a painting by numbers approach to recruitment.

Glynis

I agree with Mark agencies are hopeless, hypocritical time wasting cheats who promise the earth but never deliver. I gave been registered with a number if agencies to find me a job but have they? Have they hell.

You're better off writing to firms and keeping your eye in websites. Never use agencies!

mark057

I don't agree with your harsh words, Glynnis, regarding recruitment agencies.

There are good and bad agencies as with most aspects of life. It is very important not to tar all agencies with the same brush.

You must also consider in such a competitive market place it will be hard to compete for jobs whether they are agency based or not.

My comments about recruitment agencies were based on personal experiences of one or two agencies I've dealt with, not a broad statement about agencies in general.

rawtec

Bluewednesday wrote: »

How about treasurers role at the children's school PTA? That's how I started

Not a bad idea, I will ask. Thanks!

rawtec

mark057 wrote: »

Hi Rawtec,

I'm afraid with the job market being so competitive many agencies will give inexperieced candidates short shrift.

The old joy of supply and demand in action.

If the agencies are not helping much then voluntary work in an evening or weekend might be a possibility. I can't stress enough how important it is to get that first vital accounts experience on your CV.

I built up some purchase ledger experience at first in some temp roles then got some better overall accounts experience in the voluntary sector.

You may wish to think about helping out a small community group. The commitment would not be that great and you could still work full-time.

I used to help at a local branch of the British Lung Foundation. The work was really basic but I helped them to improve some of their bookkeeping procedures and there is always the chance to make the role your own e.g. sourcing funding for the groups.

Try looking at www.do-it.org. The site will give you a flavour of the voluntary opportunities in your area. I would also use google to find out where your local volunteer bureau is and send them an e-mail or give them a call. I'm sure they will help you to find a role to fit into your lifestyle.

Please don't give up now. The economy will improve eventually and with experience and further qualifications you will be in a better position to pick and choose your roles.

Also don't be deterred by recruitment agencies. Like some employers some of them can't see past the end of their own noses and need to employ a painting by numbers approach to recruitment.

Hi Mark057,

I've looked at the do-it.org site a few times, mainly consists of assisting with daycare, charity shops etc. Nothing much recently in way of any financial role in my area but I'll keep looking.

I did the Year End Income & Expenditure Report last week for our local residents association. They seemed happy with the work so it looks like I'll be asked again next year. I just need to build on that really.

Apologies if it appears that I'm wanting people to magically give me the answers on a plate, that's not the case. I'm just hunting around for various ideas from people who are going or been through the same dilemma.

Regards,
Rob

taskey

rawtec wrote: »

Not a bad idea, I will ask. Thanks!

i started as the treasurer of our local scout group, i am now the germany treasurer too, and i am the treasurer of my hubbys masonic lodge.

Any groups you can volunteer for will appreciate any help you can give. although i go to the scout meetings, i have absolutly nothing to do with the children. i think alot of people are put off thinking they have to work with the kids too, but if you specify youare only there to be treasurer they will understand and appreciate your honesty.

just put your feelers out and volunteer, always looks good on a cv

Tracy

mark057

I went to an agency the other week and they were not as impressed about all the volunteering work I'd done.

They said because I'd been out of paid work for a while it would be hard to find me a position.

katie2008

Glynis wrote: »

I agree with Mark agencies are hopeless, hypocritical time wasting cheats who promise the earth but never deliver. I gave been registered with a number if agencies to find me a job but have they? Have they hell.

You're better off writing to firms and keeping your eye in websites. Never use agencies!

am awaiting the response about agencies (also off blobbyh).. frankly they have helped me an awful lot. politeness gets you far!

mark057

I'm polite and courteous with everybody I deal with in a professional capacity.

I've just shared a personal experience of agencies and am not insinuating my experience is the same as everybody else.

Rinske

mark057 wrote: »

I went to an agency the other week and they were not as impressed about all the volunteering work I'd done.

They said because I'd been out of paid work for a while it would be hard to find me a position.

I think it's more meant as voluntary work besides a normal job, rather than having no paid work.

Don't get me wrong, doing voluntary work is a good way to keep going if you don't have a job, but if you have the choice, go for paid work and do something voluntary next to it.

blobbyh

I'm a bit late coming to this thread, but after reading the expected bollocks from the usual anti-agency whiners, I fancy a quick game of spot the difference.

The job centre: government funded, not-for-profit and run by civil servants. While some may have expertise in recruitment (though I'd imagine not as much as agencies), their purpose is to put the unemployed in touch with prospective employers and they have an obligation to help everyone find work.

Employment agencies: privately funded, for profit enterprises and staffed by specialist recruitment consultants. Their purpose is to put prospective employers in touch with potential candidates, not the other way round as per the job centre. Agencies work for and are paid by the employers, not by the candidates, nor do they have any obligation to find candidates work. But they cannot know how good you are until you register and you may end up wasting your time. 5hit happens, get over it.

As Mark said, there are good and bad recruitment agencies just as there are good and bad candidates who make the personal choice to walk through their doors, the latter petulantly stamping their feet and demanding to be instantly found work. The best are usually found work, the rest get left behind.

Sunday night must be Glynis night, surely? I do have sympathy for your situation Glynis, but also feel it's an unfortunate position you have more than put yourself in judging by your written testimonies on here. I see you're now contemplating tapping recruitment agencies just a mere few days after slagging them off yet again on this thread so I can also see you're not a person of principle. However, despite all that, I wish you well.

Glynis

I am quite offended at your post blobbyh. You seem to have a vendetta against people who do not agree with you. Just what gives you the right to make remarks about me just because we don't agree on the fact agencies can be ruthless. Your remarks are nothing but bigotry.

A-Vic

and there it is bang on time

katie2008

We all know how Glynis slates agencies normally. Im enjoying the fun of this thread btw.

SandyHood

I think it is worth drawing attention to Mark's posting

mark057 wrote: »

I went to an agency the other week and they were not as impressed about all the volunteering work I'd done.

They said because I'd been out of paid work for a while it would be hard to find me a position.

Very often I read about AAT students who either offer themselves or suggest others should offer themselves in an unpaid capacity.

I am very cautious about supporting such a move, it sounds close to desperation. If you consider you are not worth paying then how much should someone else value you?
You may have a plan, that would be different. Six months at charity xxx and after that work for company y or accountancy practice z, but make sure that that really is your plan.

In our line of work we are judged worthy of managing someone else's money, so we must be confident in our own abilities and not desperate. Look what a dim view the agency took of Mark's volunteering experience.

I do volunteer accounting, but I do it for very clear reasons. In the case of one company, they have no paid staff and carry out all their work for the good of a particular community. I have also contacted firms from time to time when I really want to know how particular accounting techniques/practices are carried out, this is so that my teaching has credibility. I also take paid work where my knowledge and experience means I bring something worth having. So I have a mix, and I am employed on a full time teaching contract at Chichester College.

I understand that some people get frustrated and find getting work difficult, but please don't expect it to get any easier just because you've worked somewhere and not been paid.
Here is one way I might see working for free as worth it, but even then I would advise caution.
Ask an employer who turned you down why, and then say would you be likely to employ me if I had xx and xx experience?
Did you like my application in all other respects? If I got the experience and then made contact again say six months from now, would you give me that job?

I'd be interested to hear if agencies are finding that employers are still as keen to use them. I am now regularly contacted with requests for suitable accounts staff, this isn't because of any active advertising more the result of former students impressing local employers. If you go to a college where employers have had staff who studied there and liked the work they did, don't be surprised if your lecturer has a quiet word about the odd vacancy he/she is aware has arisen.

A-Vic

i have had encounters with agencies for the past ten years.

Firstly ten years ago i walked in to a jobs fair at my local town hall no formal education and not worked for over ten years (raising a family) and they were very polite but said to me unfortunately they couldnt sign me up at that point.

So i decided to go back to school gained GCSE's and A-Levels and returned two years later they were impressed with level of qualifactions but said without any experience they couldnt sign me up at that time.

So managed to get on a 16 week admin course through the job centre completed and got a minimum wage job as pratice administrator. Through this spoke with my manager who mentioned the AAT and i started the course, in the meantime building experience setting up two offices dealing with clients training staff and going up in levels over the last 3 years.

Now almost 6 years on C.V looking impressive i am now getting contacted by agencies with job offers but am able to turn them down and be fussy to find the ideal job for me.

Agencies as already mentioned arnt a government run scheme and like someone has said like any business have to get the best candidate for placement or they dont make their money. Plus if they had taken me on back ten years ago what use would i have been i couldnt do what i can now.

Also we must get 5 to 10 c.vs a week of people offering services free but out of the last 3 people we have allowed to volenteer none of them have stayed due to amount of work we cant give them and all they end up doing is filing not because of them but no one has the time to spend training someone who isnt employed.

Please dont be put off but be warned AAT doesnt give you a right to a job just an advantage the rest is persverance and bloody hard work

exam panic

Some times I wonder is it worth 3 years of study and get around 15-21k a year I know I will get reply that how stupid I'm but that is the fact out there .In my opinion AAT should put from foundation to level 4 in 2 years that may be worth doing .

A-Vic

I can answer that one yes it sure is as most employers will only pay minimum wage as they are legally required to, and in todays job market people will work for that as well. At the end of the day you have a choice not to do the aat.

Rinske

exam panic wrote: »

Some times I wonder is it worth 3 years of study and get around 15-21k a year I know I will get reply that how stupid I'm but that is the fact out there .In my opinion AAT should put from foundation to level 4 in 2 years that may be worth doing .

You can do the AAT in less then 3 years. I did the NVQ route and did intermediate and technician in 1 1/2 year. However I did it in distance learning as most colleges here didn't give you the option to pick your own pace.

That's not to show off, but just saying it is possible! I know there are a lot more who have done it faster and also people who take longer, because they pick their own pace. It just depends on the time you have available. Colleges just can't offer the course to everyone at their speed, but have to set a certain pace so that all can keep up.

mark057

Totally disagree with you on that Sandy.

Voluntary work can provide you with solid practical experience and show you are prepared to show commitment to your chosen profession, whilst looking for paid work.

To say it shows desperation is completely disrespectful to myself and others who have used voluntary work as an avenue to gain better practical experience.

SandyHood

Mark
I take your point, and retain my view.
I am happy to agree to differ.
And happy to respect you for sticking to your view.

seancoleby

Rinske wrote: »

You can do the AAT in less then 3 years. I did the NVQ route and did intermediate and technician in 1 1/2 year. However I did it in distance learning as most colleges here didn't give you the option to pick your own pace.

That's not to show off, but just saying it is possible! I know there are a lot more who have done it faster and also people who take longer, because they pick their own pace. It just depends on the time you have available. Colleges just can't offer the course to everyone at their speed, but have to set a certain pace so that all can keep up.

Agreed matey!! I have done my first 2 levels of diploma in Just over 6 months and plan to do my final level in the same time. Fortunately my employer has given me a fair amount of time off to study but ive put in alot of personal hours. With the new CBE the qualification can be completed very quickly with the right application.