Agencies Again :(
Glynis
Registered Posts: 488 Dedicated contributor 🦉
Just how on earth do agencies work?someone I know has managed to secure a job in practise first time with exactly the same agency I was registered with. She has no practise experiance and is only a couple of years younger than me. It's ridiculous how these people work. I've tried for years without success and I know it's difficult but surely it must be something to do with the jobs I'm being put forward for. I'm really confused by how these people operate.
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Glynis
It might be worth asking the person you know whether he or she handled the interview in a different way.
I'd be inclined to think that they use a fairly similar method of judging all their candidates and you could learn from your friend's success.Sandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
We work by matching suitable candidates to jobs. Your agency sounds good to me, they have filled the vacancy. I wonder if they would have got the same result if they had put you forward? If you weren't put forward my guess is there's something wrong with your CV - for some reason they didn't want the client to see it - or were you put forward but you didn't get past the interview stage? In that case like Sandy said it is your interview technique.0
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Glynis
It might be worth asking the person you know whether he or she handled the interview in a different way.
I'd be inclined to think that they use a fairly similar method of judging all their candidates and you could learn from your friend's success.
Subtle but true, if someone else has got a job but you haven't it can surely only be down to how they came across at interview?0 -
Maybe the client wanted someone younger with no experience so as to be able to "mould" them.
I've been told outright by a recruiter that they wouldn't put me forward for a role because their client wanted someone with less "life experience" (i.e.) they wanted someone younger - except actually saying that outright would be breaking every single age discrimiation law going.
Sometimes its absolutely nothing to do with your skills and experience but just your demographic. Another day it could swing in your favour if the client wants someone with life experience.
I've only ever had one agency call me back - probably because before I decided to start taking AAT I worked in recruitment for 3 years ! Agencies hate working with ex recruiters.
Have you had a look at what gaps you have in your "personal profile" in terms of skills that are in demand to employers right now ? I had a look at my profile and focused on the things I can change (can't do anything about my age - which is only early 30's loll) but it seems candidates with strong Excel Skills seem to secure interviews. It costs £36 to do an advanced Excel course with Learn Direct - for me I think mastering Pivot Tables and all that good stuff will plug a big hole in my profile. Is there something maybe slightly outside of the AAT sylabus that will compliment your skill set and make employers think - "oh this candiate can also offer us this on top of the basic requirements we were looking for..."0 -
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Maybe it was your past interviews that have held you back?
What feedback have you had previously, if none speak to agency they should have some idea of why employers do not invite you to interview.
As suggestions have been put update your skill set - maybe even look at some personal skill sets to gain, get a hobby? A fully rounded individual is more use to a team than one that is not. May also help you unwind having a hobby?
Agencies put forward as many people as they can for positions they only get paid if the job is filled. My experience of agencies hasn't been particularly good, but they provide a service and they can't be held responsible if your CV is not what their client requires. They can't force people to interview you, they would be doing you an injustice if they actually sent you and wasted everyone's time.0 -
Agencies put forward as many people as they can for positions...
Can I ask what you base this on jorja? This may be true for unskilled factory labour positions - almost anyone can pack a box - but couldn't be further from the truth for professional level roles where quality, not quantity, is the key objective.
Any reputable agency - and I say reputable, since like any other avenue of business there are good and bad recruitment agencies - absolutely won't do what you're saying. Agencies work for the client - not the candidates - and flooding the former with too much poor quality of the latter will only waste the clients time and probably ensure they go elsewhere next time they have a position. Consultants earn commission for their placements and they're usually obsessed with making money. They also won't waste their own time putting forward no hopers and risk losing lucrative clients. Having a go at a recruitment consultant will only ensure you are dropped from their minds and books - there's no shortage of experienced, qualified and grateful accounts people around at the moment.
Glynis makes no mention of the experience or qualification of the person who was hired by the accountancy practice nor of the position that was filled. As for candidate feedback, if a candidate is shortlisted/interviewed and later rejected, many clients do like feedback to be given to the unsuccessful candidate but there's no such obligation if the CV was rejected at the first stage or never even put forward in the first place.
It may sound harsh, but the two main reasons for why most people don't find employment through agencies is either because there's a lack of suitable roles available for them or more often than not, simply because they're not good enough for the ones that are available.0 -
Are you speaking about this from direct experience on a client side of the business jorja? As I said, there are good and bad agencies like any other form of business but you cannot taint all agencies with the same brush because of the questionable actions of just one.
Besides, the position of accounts assistant is a highly subjective one. Some accounts assistants are required to be chartered while others may be acceptable at the lower rungs of AAT. There are also other variables such as the type of agency being used to fill the position: if it's generic rather than niche (i.e. jack of all trades, master of none) then a client may not receive a quality service whereas in the latter type, the recruitment consultants will be more specialised and know what to look for. You wouldn't use Kelly Services to find a Finance Director, nor would you use Reed Accountancy to find a warehouse operative.
So many people have misinformed opinions of recruitment agencies, invariably only seen from the candidate side, and they have very little or no idea of how they actually work.0 -
So many people have misinformed opinions of recruitment agencies, invariably only seen from the candidate side, and they have very little or no idea of how they actually work.
blobbyh I wasn't "having a go" at the recruitment agencies, it obviously didn't come across how I was writing it.
They deal with the client primarily and take the flack when candidates don't get the answer they were hoping for.
It was a client perspective i was referring to and the financial recruitment agency didn't supply candidates we requested. So looked over ALL applicants and found one that worked a treat.
It is all about the communication. One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.0 -
Once an agency insisted to put me through a payroll (quite high) job position, when I specifically told them (and it's clear on my CV) that I have very little experience with payroll!
Sometimes some agencies try their luck with candidates...their interest is to earn money at the end of the day, once a position is filled, it's not their problem anymore.0 -
, once a position is filled, it's not their problem anymore.
Sometimes. I got a job through an agency once and didn't pass probation (haha). I know they held off paying the agency's invoice until the probation was up, and I assume they contested it once I'd left. Of course I've no idea what happened, but an agency still has a problem (even if it's just hassle) if a candidate is not suitable for whatever reason.0 -
...once a position is filled, it's not their problem anymore.
Also a myth since most contracts have refund clauses built into them. For example, if a candidate leaves within six weeks then 100% of the fee may be refundable, reducing on a sliding scale until it eventually reaches zero at say six months. Thus it's not in a consultants interest to just put anyone forward for any job: they'd never earn any commission and would eventually lose their own jobs for never successfully placing anyone.
As for deliberately withholding payment, in our case, refund clauses are only conditional if a client pays the invoice on time. We do provide a good service to a great many clients, many people would never find or fill their jobs if it wasn't for the agents in the middle connecting dream client to dream candidate. Most clients are happy to pay for our services, however there's also the odd rogue client who thinks they can steal our candidates without paying. Sadly, client dishonesty seems to be on the increase with the rise of corporate social networking and there's not much we can do about it. Can hardly pull out a perm candidate once you've placed them can you?0 -
Bit off topic;
I was reading the new VAT rules for agencies, were you only have to charge vat on the agency charge and not the salary of the person.
Should help agencies get more work! (with organisations that can't reclaim vat)0 -
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It may well mean some smaller agencies will now fall below the registration threshold.
Quite a few DJ agencies charge fees for supplying the DJ, but require the client to pay the DJ direct. They have used this to keep their own businesses below the threshold.Sandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
[QUOTE
So many people have misinformed opinions of recruitment agencies, invariably only seen from the candidate side, and they have very little or no idea of how they actually work.[/QUOTE]
Whilst I am sure this is true, a lot of people have these, often negative, views of agencies, precisely because of the situation the original poster found themselves in. I realise recruitment staff must be very busy, but it is often difficult to get feedback from them, although they expect the candidate to drop everything when they want to put them forward for something. Perhaps if communication with the candidate was better, there would be less negativity towards them, and maybe even a better understanding of how things work. An individual can only speak from their own experiences.0 -
Whilst I am sure this is true, a lot of people have these, often negative, views of agencies, precisely because of the situation the original poster found themselves in.
Unrealistic expectations?
Agencies can only do so much. Obviously they get paid for matching staff to employers, so they will do what they can to do so, and if they don't, theres likely to be a reason.0 -
Perhaps if communication with the candidate was better, there would be less negativity towards them, and maybe even a better understanding of how things work. An individual can only speak from their own experiences.
Almost exclusively, those people who routinely criticise agencies are the very same ones who've never successfully been placed by them. They might as well complain to Camelot about not winning the lottery just because they bought a ticket. The ones who do find work through agencies are I can assure you, (usually) more than happy yet we never hear from them, do we?
As we all know, agencies make their fees by placing the right candidate to the right job: we'd make precisely nothing if we constantly did the exact opposite. So who's to blame for low calibre candiates? Certainly not the agencies. The OP and any other agency basher really need to look at themselves for their repeated causes of agency non-employment: after all, if they were of that high quality or desireable, we'd have placed them and got our money, wouldn't we?
Ultimately, agencies aren't to blame for candidates not meeting the criteria laid down by the client, the primary reason for rejection or non-submission.0 -
Blobby H - Help please ?
Think I mentioned earlier that my background is in recruitment (niche IT more precicely !) so I have good understanding of how agencies work.
There are some great recruiters out there who care about building long term relationships with clients and candidates and making sure they get the right person in the right job. Right now though trying to negotiate my way through a career change from Recruitment to Accounts I am feeling the frustration from the candidate side of the fence !
I feel like I am bashing my head up against a brick wall, as very few recruiters will take my call, return my emails let alone invite me in to register. I get a strong feeling they think I am going to come along to register in branch and do my utmost to "poach" their jobs and go direct !
I come from a strong background in recruitment administration. I have just self funded and completed level 2 and 3 of AAT in 12 months (during which time I became a mum, and also continued to work full time) which has put my excellent organisational and problem solving skills to good use !
I am currently studying AAT at level 4 and undertaking an unpaid internship in an accountancy practice where I have prepared accounts for sole traders, completed personal tax returns and assisted on an audit based at client site. I'm resourceful, reliable and have a "can do" attitude. I am committed to persuing my career in accounts and will bring this desire to succeed to the client's team.
I'm applying for entry level jobs (which I am more than capable of doing) but I hear absolutley nothing back. The only piece of feedback I have ever recieved is that the client wanted a candidate with less "life experience" in order to mould them.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts Blobby on the best way to proceed. I just feel like I have slammed in to a brick wall and can't get around/over/through it ! I don't know what else I can do to enhance my skill set or just make my profile more appealing.....0 -
I can't agree with that. There is a lot more work going into most people's jobsearch than the buying of a lottery ticket involves. And yes, there may be a problem with a candidate's cv, or some other problem, but the lack of feedback can make that quite a difficult thing for a candidate to pinpoint. As the agency deals as the 'middle man' in these negotiations, often the end client is not even known to the candidate if they don't make it to interview stage. So if the agency don't tell the candidate that their cv requires work, or that there is a hole in their experience that is holding them back, how is the candidate to know or rectify this?
I'm not an embittered agency basher, I have recently completed a temporary assignment which I obtained through an agency, and am now looking for a new role, which I will hopefully secure soon. I'm just putting the case for the 'other side', as it's so diffcult for people at the moment, when there are so many applicants for every job, and I know there's a lot of advice on the internet etc, but if everyone's following the same pointers, it's still very difficult to stand out....0 -
No matter how good or how bad an Agency is, they can not create jobs.
Nor should they swamp their clients with hundreds of applications, the client will expect the Agency to sift through applicants to come up with a reasoable choice.0 -
So if the agency don't tell the candidate that their cv requires work, or that there is a hole in their experience that is holding them back, how is the candidate to know or rectify this?
Yes - this is it exactly ! The recruiters role may well be to find the perfect candidate for their client - but in fairness clients can be exceptionally demanding with their spec and in the current climate they are in a position to be so.
I've networked my way to an interview tomorrow, I'm hoping that something may come of my intern placement at the local practice, and I have favourable feedback for a direct application to another role but the closing date isn't until Friday, so I hope to hear something then. But agencies... nope ... they don't want to know me !
I'm guessing if I get one of these roles, in 12 months time agencies will be more than happy to speak with me, but in terms of making that first move from one career to another - no agent has been prepared to take a risk on me so far.0 -
No matter how good or how bad an Agency is, they can not create jobs.
Nor should they swamp their clients with hundreds of applications, the client will expect the Agency to sift through applicants to come up with a reasoable choice.
Agreed. That said, I think sometimes employers can be just as guilty of writing bad job specs as clients can be of writing poor CV's.
I had a client once who told me that they needed a great big long list of things (which from essentially two completely different skill sets) to replace a person who had retired. When I questioned further as to why to some of the skills were necessary it transpired that the previous holder of the post had taken on additional responsibility in a completely unrelated area and it would be nice if the replacement candidate could do the same.
I had one candidate who had the great technical skills having recently graduated but no work experience (and low salary expectations). I had another candidate who had the client facing soft skills and hands on work experience who was looking to move in to a team leading role. I filled the requirement by offering the technical student, (who was happy to get his first industry placement) the client facing consultant (who got to manage the student and as such was happy with the move) and the salary of both candidates actually came in 5 K under budget (because both were motivated to move for experience not £)
so the client was happy too ! It took quite a bit of persuading but ultimately it turned out to be a win:win err win !
I do think that sometimes recruiters don't look at the possible options that they could offer their client and just try and buzzword match CV's to job specs. Some recruiters that is... not all
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...if the agency don't tell the candidate that their cv requires work, or that there is a hole in their experience that is holding them back, how is the candidate to know or rectify this?
I know this going to come across as terribly harsh so I apologise in advance, but just how is that an obligation of the recruitment agency? Agencies can currently pick from a huge talent pool in which there will (usually) be several candidates able to fill a position, so why would they waste valuable resources in getting an unskilled candidate up to scratch? We receive and review thousands of CV's each week and our time and money is better utilised in focussing on the ones that are perfect straight from the off, not the ones that require additional work. It's simply not the role of an agency to act as trainers to unskilled candidates and I feel this is where the huge misunderstanding between candidates and their expectations of an agency occurs. Recruitment agents are not the same as showbiz agents: in our business, the candidates don't employ the agency to find them work, it's the client who employs the agency to find them suitable candidates.
I've said this before but privately owned recruitment agencies are 'for profit' enterprises. We are not the publicly funded Job Centre where there is more of an obligation for government recruiters to find work for all and offer suitable training and feedback.0 -
To anyone who enjoys 'The Apprentice', there are comparisons as to how higher level recruitment agencies operate. You could say that a client has hired Alan Sugar to act as a recruitment consultant in finding them a suitable candidate for an executive role. And as we all know and have heard him say several times, it's not a trainee position that's on offer, and at that level it's expected that the successful person will already possess the skills required to be able to do the job effectively.0
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I'd say that there may be many people who are "perfect on paper" because they have the right CV - but as well you know a well crafted CV is not an indicator of the perfect candidate, just someone with good CV writing experience.
My experience is *some* (again not all) recruiters are all to focussed on getting that match on paper. Surely it is just as much a waste of time to interview candidates with a "perfect" CV only to find out that they are actually just very good at playing buzzword bingo or have talked up their experience.
Why would you "waste time" phoning a candidate - well leads and referrals for starters, but if thats not enough incentive you just might be surprised and find out that actually they are "perfect" for another role you have on - its just they sent you a tailored CV for a different job ( oh this job uses SAP so I'll talk down my 5 years Sage experience as its not relevant for this particular position).
A CV is a useful tool but personally I believe a phone call tells you so much more. In my experience many employers value the right team fit almost as much as qualifications. How many candidates have you sent out with a "perfect" CV that never get placed because they simply don't engage with the interviewer ?
Or... have you ever had a candidate lose out at interview to a candidate you didn't put forward but another agency did ?
Today's candidates are tomorrow's clients so starting to build a strong relationships now can hardly be considered a waste of time !
eta, I recruited in a niche IT marketplace for roles starting at 45 K upwards, so yeah its different to high street and may explain why I think the way I do 0 -
I work for an executive level agency so can only assume about low level agencies where the directives may be different. BTW, our highest placement fee to date was £125k for a £500k a year director into an international bank. Bloody consultant earned £60k commission on that one, though he was gutted that he had to pay over about £30k of that in stoppages!
Our usual roles are directors, MDs, CEOs earning around the £100k-£200k a year mark. Unlike high volume, high street agencies though, our consultants might only place eight to ten people each a year.0 -
I think the difference between niche and high street is vast ! When recruiting for top level jobs the skill set is often very particular and your pool of candidates is smaller. The candidate would not have got to the position they currently hold without proving their worth.
With high street recruitment - especially for the entry level roles, the skills on paper may not necessarily translate so well in to the actual skills the client is looking for. Lets say for example payroll - the client wants "minimum 6 months payroll experience" Candidate A's last job was doing this and they look to be a fab match from their CV. Then again may have also been "let go" from that job because they were awful or they had terrible time keeping and an attitude problem!
Conversely you may have a student who has fab grades, a very willing attitude but the hands on experience is limited. The client wants "6 months payroll" so candidate A seems the best match - but potentially the recruiter is missing out on talking to a fantastic (potentially more able) candidate who just hasn't been given a chance to prove themselves yet.
I agree with you on many points - no it is not the recruiters job to get candidates skills up to scratch, but I think some recruiters are too quick to dismiss candidates without even trying to gain an understanding of what they have to offer to the client.
Getting a first job in accounts reminds me a bit of applying for a first credit card when no-one will take you on because you have no credit history 0 -
Yea I’m in exactly that situation, I’ve been in the hospitality industry for the last 10 years, have worked hard to get AAT Tech and am now finding it hard to get any one to give me a job with no practical experience, I also have ECDL Advanced and Sage Comp qulls, I don’t mind what I do or how much it pays, the assistant account roles vary so much as to what they require, some are asking for a Bachelors degree, is AAT Tech equivalent to that? Is there a lower role I should be looking for? Any help would be appreciated.0
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