Technican's level = Level 4 = Degree level?

Siobhan CarmelSiobhan Carmel Feels At HomePosts: 50Registered
HI Folks

When we achieve our Technican's level, is that a Level 4 Qualification?

Is it equal to a Degree, HNC, HND or A levels?

Does anyone know?

Regards

Siobhan
«13

Comments

  • RinskeRinske Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 2,453Registered
    Under the old standards it was a level 4 qualification, as the level hasn't changed, I would expect it to be the same.

    Not sure where to class it on degree level, but defo lower than a degree. I think it was somewhere first or second year uni.
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    This question has been raised a few times.

    With the conclusion being its either same as degree or not much lower.

    I believe it should be classed the same as degree, thats how they're treated where I work. With chartered being classed same as a Masters.
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    Rinske wrote: »
    Not sure where to class it on degree level, but defo lower than a degree. I think it was somewhere first or second year uni.

    I've done a degree, and to say there was a big gap would be under valuing AAT and/or over valuing degree! In my opinion.
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Level vs Quantity

    Hi

    The thing to bear in mind is that the level indicates how challenging/hard/advanced a qualification is and not the amount of study/quantity of study needed to achieve the qualification.

    The levels currently applied to qualifications in England and Wales are:

    Introductory
    1 = equivalent to GCSE with lower marks/grades
    2 = GCSE with higher marks/grades
    3 = AS/A levels standard
    4 = 1st year degree standard
    5 = 2nd year degree standard
    6 = 3rd year degree standard
    7 = postgraduate certs, dips and masters level
    8 = higher professional levels/doctorial


    The title of the qualification (i.e. award, certificate, diploma etc) indicates the amount of study/study length of the qualification. For example, a post grad certificate, diploma or MSc would all be at level 7 but each would require progressively more study to achieve.

    Neil
    Pratikcha
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 4,071FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant
    I agree with Neils ranking in that level 4 = year 1 of a degree, though I don't understand the last paragraph - how can a diploma be level 7 when the AAT diploma route is the equivalent of the NVQ route which culminates in Level 4?


    TBH i don't really like the comparison - a vocational qualification like AAT is not comparable to academic qualifications like A levels and batchelor degrees. I found the AAT about as challenging as my BA degree, but the former taught me something useful that translates to the workplace, whereas the latter was academic and about as useful as learning quadratic equations at GCSEs. Obviously it all depends what undergraduate degree you take, but I don't see much benefit in the comparison.

    Interestingly, my assistant accountant has passed the first year of an accounting degree and backs it up with experience and I would equate her knowledge with that of a qualified AAT. Means the ranking does actually work?!?!
  • reddwarfreddwarf Experienced Mentor Posts: 528Registered
    On a lisess scientific note! I was told by a tutor 1/2 of a degree....
  • Jonno1Jonno1 Feels At Home Posts: 63Registered
    In no way would I class AAT as a 'degree'. I'm from 'the old school' where 'A' levels were exams that sorted the 'men/women out from the boys/girls', and that Universities were the old 'red brick' and 'technological ones', not the ones that were created from the old polytechnics in the 1990's. Degrees and 'A' levels are done under different conditions to AAT, there is a lot more pressure in these exams to succeed, rather in AAT at least you get another chance to retake, by paying £40 or so to book another simulation/CBE. Personally, I think that the old 'A' levels (and not recent ones where the standard has got easier) were the hardest exam I ever took, and AAT does not compare with these exams. I think people with 'graduate' type brains would find AAT easy (me included). BTW - I have a Bachelors and a Masters Degree from Aston and Leeds Universities.
    ksw2015
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Monsoon wrote: »
    I agree with Neils ranking in that level 4 = year 1 of a degree, though I don't understand the last paragraph - how can a diploma be level 7 when the AAT diploma route is the equivalent of the NVQ route which culminates in Level 4?

    The title (award, certificate, diploma etc) of a vocational/vocationally related qualification doesn't indicate academic/vocational level. The diploma I was referring to at level 7 is actually a post grad diploma.

    In general you can have a diploma in any subject at any level. For example, I have two BTEC diplomas (non-accounting), one of these is level 2, the other is level 3 and in these subjects there is also the possibilty of taking a certificate at level 2 and a certificate at level 3 - the diplomas require more study at the same level.

    If you look around you'll find qualifications such as Diploma in ****** Level 3 or Diploma in ****** Level 7. For vocational qualifications the title of award, certificate or diploma depends on the amount of study required (as specified by the national framework). However, universities use the titles of certificate and diploma differently.

    I addition, NVQ's further muddy the water. The framework for qualifications used to be based on levels 1 to 5, tied in with the NVQ levels. The "old" levels 1, 2 and 3 are the equivalent of the corresponding levels of the new framework I specified. However, level 4 (undergraduate) of the "old" framework was split into levels 4, 5 and 6 and level 5 (postgraduate) became 7 and 8. NVQ 4's can be the equivalent of either levels 4, 5 and 6 of the new framework (depending on the individual NVQ and NVQ 5's can be at either level 7 or 8.


    Old framework:

    Introductory
    1 = equivalent to GCSE with lower marks/grades, NVQ 1
    2 = GCSE with higher marks/grades, NVQ 2
    3 = AS/A levels standard, NVQ 3
    4 = Undergraduate/bachelors degree, NVQ 4
    5 = Postgraduate/masters/doctorial, NVQ 5


    New (current) framework:

    Introductory
    1 = equivalent to GCSE with lower marks/grades, NVQ 1
    2 = GCSE with higher marks/grades, NVQ 2
    3 = AS/A levels standard, NVQ 3
    4 = 1st year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    5 = 2nd year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    6 = 3rd year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    7 = postgraduate certs, dips and masters level, NVQ 5*
    8 = higher professional levels/doctorial, NVQ 5*
    * the level of the framework that the NVQ relates to depends on the specific NVQ. AAT NVQ 4 is at level 4 of the framework but you could conceivably have an NVQ 4 at levels 4, 5 or 6 of the framework

    Neil
    Pratikcha
  • MonsoonMonsoon Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 4,071FMAAT, AAT Licensed Accountant
    Jonno, surely comparing old school degrees to any modern qualifications really isn't very meaningful? Given that all and sundry are expected to be able to goto university and get a degree nowadays (and they wonder why grants were abolished?!?!) as opposed to the upper percentile of people in the good old days (whenever that was) surely you have to compare like with like. If AAT level 4 is equivalent to the first year of a degree it needs to be equivalent to an average modern- day degree which includes degrees at old polys, not just equivalent to a modern Oxbridge or an older Red Brick degree.

    At what point do you consider the standard of A levels changed? 1980? 1990? 2000? 2010?
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Hi

    It's worth noting that just because a qualification is rated at 1st year uni level doesn't mean it involves as much study time as the first year of a degree.

    Neil
  • WoooofWoooof Well-Known Posts: 174Registered
    NeilH wrote: »

    New (current) framework:

    Introductory
    1 = equivalent to GCSE with lower marks/grades, NVQ 1
    2 = GCSE with higher marks/grades, NVQ 2
    3 = AS/A levels standard, NVQ 3
    4 = 1st year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    5 = 2nd year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    6 = 3rd year degree standard, NVQ 4*
    7 = postgraduate certs, dips and masters level, NVQ 5*
    8 = higher professional levels/doctorial, NVQ 5*
    * the level of the framework that the NVQ relates to depends on the specific NVQ. AAT NVQ 4 is at level 4 of the framework but you could conceivably have an NVQ 4 at levels 4, 5 or 6 of the framework
    The college I go to offers a one night a week for a year course to go from completion of AAT NVQ Level 4 to a Business Accounting Degree Year 2.

    From this info it would be between a 1st and 2nd year degree.
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Woooof wrote: »
    The college I go to offers a one night a week for a year course to go from completion of AAT NVQ Level 4 to a Business Accounting Degree Year 2.

    From this info it would be between a 1st and 2nd year degree.

    Are you saying that AAT enters you at 2nd year or 3rd year degree? The framework I quited is the QCF framework, where AAT (as per the Diploma's title) is accredited at level 4, regardless of how a college may choose to recognise it.

    Neil
  • WoooofWoooof Well-Known Posts: 174Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    Are you saying that AAT enters you at 2nd year or 3rd year degree? The framework I quited is the QCF framework, where AAT (as per the Diploma's title) is accredited at level 4, regardless of how a college may choose to recognise it.

    Neil
    2nd year, but as you only do one night a week I presume you would have learnt part of year 2 already.
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Hi

    I imagine it exempts AAT qualifieds from the first year and they take the equivalent of the second and third year. Is it just one year part time for the second year? I'm not a graduate but I would question the "robustness" of a degree where exemption for more than the first year was given based on AAT.

    Neil
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    6 = 3rd year degree standard, NVQ 4*

    Neil


    So are you saying it is equivalent to degree?

    Found this from the AAT website;

    "Conversely, for 18-year-olds choosing to enter workplace training instead of university, the financial rewards could be high. Across a three-year period, it is estimated that school-leavers training for a recognised professional, degree-equivalent (Level 4), vocational qualification such as AAT will be at least £63011.84** better-off than their graduate peers by the age of 21."

    http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item81564/
  • Jo ClarkJo Clark Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 2,526Registered
    In the past I studied with the Open University (before AAT) and I looked into Credit Transfer for another vocational/professional qualification which I hold.

    I've just checked the OU website and this is the current advice for the AAT qualification:-

    AAT Education and Training Scheme: Technician Stage/Level › Course awarded from 1994 onwards
    Your previous study is eligible for credit towards the Open University BA/BSc degree as follows:

    60 credits at level 2 with an "Equal BA/BSc" designation

    I think this means that level 2 is the equivalent to the second year of a degree as you are required to achieve 120 credits at level 1, 2 and 3 to obtain a honours degree (360 credits) or 300 credits (only 60 at level 3) for a degree without honours.

    Could it be that different academic institutions award different credit transfers?

    http://www3.open.ac.uk/credit-transfer/professional/award000454_1_BD.shtm
    ~ An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest ~
    Benjamin Franklin
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    Jo Clark wrote: »
    I think this means that level 2 is the equivalent to the second year of a degree as you are required to achieve 120 credits at level 1, 2 and 3 to obtain a honours degree (360 credits) or 300 credits (only 60 at level 3) for a degree without honours.

    You can't compare expemptions to equivalents.

    I did a degree before ACCA, I was excempt because of this from 4 units, but that didn't mean my degree is equivalent to 4/14 th's of ACCA.
  • exam panicexam panic Well-Known Posts: 157Registered
    NVQ not degree
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    PGM wrote: »
    So are you saying it is equivalent to degree?

    No, an NVQ level 4 can be at levels 4, 5 or 6 of the qualifications and curriculum framework depending of the individual NVQ. AAT NVQ is/was as level 4 of the overal framework, placing it equivalent to 1st year degree and the current level 4 Diploma is at level 4. The qualification framework rates the Diploma with around 350 study hours at level 4. An honours degree would have 1200 hours at level 4 (uni level 1), 1200 at level 5 (uni 2) and 1200 at level 6 (uni 3)

    The framework levels indicates how "hard" or challenging a qualification is and not how much study/quantity of study invloved. In order for a qualification to be equivalent of a degree it would need to be composed of the same levels of study and require the same time and quantity of study. You can see similar examples in current vocational qualications: I hold a BTEC Diploma at level 3, there is also a Certificate in the same subject at Level 3 but the certificate was 1 year full time whereas the diploma was 2 years.

    Neil
  • Rozzi RainbowRozzi Rainbow Trusted Regular Posts: 465Registered
    I am currently studying ACCA and upon completion of the Fundamentals Level you can submit a research paper and be awarded a Bsc.

    As AAT only exempts you from the first part of ACCA I would say it would be comparable to part of a degree, say the first or second year as has already been suggested.

    As completing the ACCA Fundamentals level and research paper gives you a degree, I would say completing all of ACCA is probably equivalent to a Masters (just my own personal opinion here).

    I think it's difficult to try and compare academic and vocational qualifications anyway as they are so different and aimed at different people and environments.
  • PGMPGM Font Of All Knowledge Posts: 1,954Registered
    Still, it surprises me after doing AAT and a degree!

    Maybe its the academic side that have done the comparison ;)
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    Hi

    Without undervaluing the AAT, I spent more time in the uni "class room" and on the assicated self study than I did on AAT technician stage, particularly when you consider AAT techncian is 1 year part time as opposed to full time. The level of of study maybe comparable, but not the volume.

    Neil
  • reddwarfreddwarf Experienced Mentor Posts: 528Registered
    That'll do for me, quality not quantity!
  • Rozzi RainbowRozzi Rainbow Trusted Regular Posts: 465Registered
    NeilH wrote: »
    Hi

    Without undervaluing the AAT, I spent more time in the uni "class room" and on the assicated self study than I did on AAT technician stage, particularly when you consider AAT techncian is 1 year part time as opposed to full time. The level of of study maybe comparable, but not the volume.

    Neil

    But the AAT also inlcudes all the relevant work experience, which I think in accounting is just as/more valuable than classroom learning.

    I thought it was interesting how on the Census they listed NVQ Level 4 and Professional Qualification above a Bachelors degree!
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    But the AAT also inlcudes all the relevant work experience, which I think in accounting is just as/more valuable than classroom learning.

    True, but the work experience won't necessarily form part of the qualification. I didn't need to submit anything work based other than a short H&S project and the (then) MAS report.

    I think "reddwarf's" comment puts things in prospective: it should be about the purpose, intention and value of the qualification itself. I'd respect a GCSE in a solid subject more than I would an A-Level in a "whimsical" subject.
  • Rozzi RainbowRozzi Rainbow Trusted Regular Posts: 465Registered
    PGM wrote: »
    You can't compare expemptions to equivalents.

    I did a degree before ACCA, I was excempt because of this from 4 units, but that didn't mean my degree is equivalent to 4/14 th's of ACCA.

    So using this method - I was exempt from 3 ACCA units because of my AAT, so does that make my AAT worth 3/4s of your degree?!

    As Neil says, it's not just about the qualification, it's everything that goes with it. Would someone with a degree in Acccountancy but with no practical experience be worth more than an MAAT with experience? (Rhetorical question, I don't want to open up a whole new debate!)

    I think most of it's subjective anyway, even degrees in different subjects can be at different standards, or even the same subject but from a different uni!
  • stevefstevef Well-Known CarmarthenPosts: 258Registered
    Remember, if you are alwys progressing your qualifications, the hardest exam you have ever taken was the last one. In hindsite, previous exams seem less challenging as you move on!

    So a graduate will look back with fond memories of the compartively straight forward A levels, but three or four years earlier A levels were almost impossible. It is not so much examination standards changing, but more our memories of them.
  • reddwarfreddwarf Experienced Mentor Posts: 528Registered
    Interesting point on memory, I think this is a unspecified design feature of human beings, so that the human race continues, that traumatic events such as child birth and AAT exams !!! gradually are recalled as less traumatic as time passes so that people continue to procreate and study!!!!

    Maybe it is the greater scheme of things that we are progammed to continue to challenge ourselves?

    OMG sorry, this is turning in to a 'meaning of life' debate!

    The answer has to be 42..
  • izzyizzy New Member Posts: 6Registered
    Degree?

    The Open University requires that you take 300 points for an Ordinary Degree or 360 points for an Honours Degree. I had started studying with them before doing AAT, completed the AAT & then transferred the credits across so I could claim the Degree. They stimulate you need 120 points at each of their levels, 1, 2 & 3 in order to gain an Honours Degree. They allow no credit transfer for AAT Foundation, but allowed 30 points at level 2 for the Intermediate & 60 points at level 3 for the Technician Level.
  • NeilHNeilH Trusted Regular Posts: 547Registered
    izzy wrote: »
    The Open University requires that you take 300 points for an Ordinary Degree or 360 points for an Honours Degree. I had started studying with them before doing AAT, completed the AAT & then transferred the credits across so I could claim the Degree. They stimulate you need 120 points at each of their levels, 1, 2 & 3 in order to gain an Honours Degree. They allow no credit transfer for AAT Foundation, but allowed 30 points at level 2 for the Intermediate & 60 points at level 3 for the Technician Level.

    I looked at OU study, the credit transfer info says 30 credits at level 1 for intermediate and 60 credits at level 2 for technician.

    Neil
Sign In or Register to comment.