What is the point in passing AAT?
Comments
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How come the entry requirements to study ACCA are so low? You only need an A Level or something don't you? lol0
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This thread is quite amusing. Let me tell you my experiences.
I left my old career to take on the NVQ route foundation and intermediate AAT on a full time basis at college. I took on a part time job at Asda (I still live with parents so I had the luxury of not having to worry about pay too much) working 20 hours a week and had lessons for 16-20 hours a week.
I passed both intermediate and foundation and was told that getting work for Technician level would be beneficial. I put my CV on monster and got a call within a week. Why did I get a call? Because the company needed a new (and most likely, cheap) member of staff to deal with Purchase Ledger and a few other "mediocre" items. I also had potential as I stated my desire to study AAT technician on my profile.
Now, my career didn't get off to the best start and 4 weeks into my job i was in hospital and off work for 5 weeks. Luckily, I didn't lose my job and started AAT Technician in Sept 08'. After an eventful year and return trips to the hospital i still had two exams remaining.
Now the crunch part. In September we had redundancies at work. 19 staff were to go, and 1 from accounts. There are three of us in accounts and one is the boss. So it was me, or the guy who had 30 years experience and 4 years at the company who had to go.
And....
I'm still here. Because they value the fact I have AAT level 3 (and hopefully come Feb, AAT level 4) and the potential I have. I am also being encouraged to go on to do CIMA. So, even though I had, in my first year in employment, nearly 50 days sick, a lot of lateness and still had one day a week to go to college on top of that, I was kept on because of the potential and the qualification.
So is AAT worth it? Well I wouldn't have got a job without it, and if I had, i certainly wouldn't have kept it.0 -
Hi,
I think you need to let people decide as to where the AAT sits according to their experience and this evidence.
What I am offering here is evidence, not conjecture.
The evidence shows that Technician NVQ4 is actually 1 NVQ level below ACCA which is considered equivalent to NVQ5.
Please let other people decide on the placement of the AAT qualification based on evidence as your ideas may be seen as negative to those just starting out.
Regards
With respect, the point Neil was making is that even though it's only one NVQ level below ACA/ ACCA level, as you correctly stated, not all NVQ Level 4's are of the same NQF level. An NVQ Level 4 can be up to 3 levels lower than the standard of an NVQ Level 5. I suppose he hasn't provided evidence as you say, but what he stated doesn't contradict your evidence, and he's probably telling the truth anyway! lol
I'm sure AAT students have a great success rate making the step up to ACCA/ ACA level. After all, they get exemption from the 1st year of the course. I think people here are more pointing out a technicality in terms of qualification classification, rather than deeming the ACCA/ ACA qualification a much more difficult qualification.0 -
this thread is quite amusing. Let me tell you my experiences.
I left my old career to take on the nvq route foundation and intermediate aat on a full time basis at college. I took on a part time job at asda (i still live with parents so i had the luxury of not having to worry about pay too much) working 20 hours a week and had lessons for 16-20 hours a week.
I passed both intermediate and foundation and was told that getting work for technician level would be beneficial. I put my cv on monster and got a call within a week. Why did i get a call? Because the company needed a new (and most likely, cheap) member of staff to deal with purchase ledger and a few other "mediocre" items. I also had potential as i stated my desire to study aat technician on my profile.
Now, my career didn't get off to the best start and 4 weeks into my job i was in hospital and off work for 5 weeks. Luckily, i didn't lose my job and started aat technician in sept 08'. After an eventful year and return trips to the hospital i still had two exams remaining.
Now the crunch part. In september we had redundancies at work. 19 staff were to go, and 1 from accounts. There are three of us in accounts and one is the boss. So it was me, or the guy who had 30 years experience and 4 years at the company who had to go.
And....
I'm still here. Because they value the fact i have aat level 3 (and hopefully come feb, aat level 4) and the potential i have. I am also being encouraged to go on to do cima. So, even though i had, in my first year in employment, nearly 50 days sick, a lot of lateness and still had one day a week to go to college on top of that, i was kept on because of the potential and the qualification.
So is aat worth it? Well i wouldn't have got a job without it, and if i had, i certainly wouldn't have kept it.
love it!
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With respect, the point Neil was making is that even though it's only one NVQ level below ACA/ ACCA level, as you correctly stated, not all NVQ Level 4's are of the same NQF level. An NVQ Level 4 can be up to 3 levels lower than the standard of an NVQ Level 5. I suppose he hasn't provided evidence as you say, but what he stated doesn't contradict your evidence, and he's probably telling the truth anyway! lol
Hi,
Thank you for your comments. I think we have to look at the evidence. What I have not stated earlier is that one of my tutors was a university lecturer and he considers AAT NVQ4 to be at the level I have stated.
As I say, I think people need to look at the evidence and positive expericences.
What I have offered is evidence and not conjecture.
I welome any evidence at this stage to dispute what I am saying.0 -
Hi messedup89, Thank you for the great post.
I am sure this will encourage AAT students.
Regards0 -
Hi,
I think you need to let people decide as to where the AAT sits according to their experience and this evidence.
What I am offering here is evidence, not conjecture.
The evidence shows that Technician NVQ4 is actually 1 NVQ level below ACCA which is considered equivalent to NVQ5.
Please let other people decide on the placement of the AAT qualification based on evidence as your ideas may be seen as negative to those just starting out.
Regards
They aren't my "ideas", the information I present is based on an official rating of qualifications which shows that while there is "one" NVQ step between the AAT NVQ 4 and an NVQ 5, the step is actually made up of various stages making it one large step.
Im not being negative towards the AAT, but what you say makes it appear that the overall gap between AAT and a chartered qualifcation is far less significant than it actually is - anyone who has gone from AAT to ACA/ACCA/CIMA will tell you it's a significant step from to the other, maybe you'll revisit that thought when you have completed a chartered qual.
Your points may be mis-leading for those just starting out, i'ts like saying one A-Level is "just" one step below an honours degree when everyone knows the level and amount of work that goes into one degree is far greater than one A-level.
Neil0 -
This thread is quite amusing. Let me tell you my experiences.
I left my old career to take on the NVQ route foundation and intermediate AAT on a full time basis at college. I took on a part time job at Asda (I still live with parents so I had the luxury of not having to worry about pay too much) working 20 hours a week and had lessons for 16-20 hours a week.
Good, inspiring story. That's encouraging to hear. Don't know why it's an amusing thread though. It's an important question to be asking, and different employers have different attitudes. For example, one woman who interviewed me for a position as an accounts position when I was studying AAT Intermediate Level suggested that it was almost a bad idea to complete AAT without gaining practical experience alongside it, as I would 'forget' what I'd learnt, so some employers would actually recommend that I wait till I get an accounts position before I continue with my studies.0 -
Hi,
Thank you for your comments. I think we have to look at the evidence. What I have not stated earlier is that one of my tutors was a university lecturer and he considers AAT NVQ4 to be at the level I have stated.
As I say, I think people need to look at the evidence and positive expericences.
What I have offered is evidence and not conjecture.
I welome any evidence at this stage to dispute what I am saying.
Yeah, you're right, it is, but Neil's right as well. Different NVQ Level 4s are different NQF levels. AAT Technician Level happens to be 3 NQF levels below NVQ Level 5.0 -
They aren't my "ideas", the information I present is based on an official rating of qualifications which shows that while there is "one" NVQ step between the AAT NVQ 4 and an NVQ 5, the step is actually made up of various stages making it one large step.
Im not being negative towards the AAT, but what you say makes it appear that the overall gap between AAT and a chartered qualifcation is far less significant than it actually is - maybe you'll revisit that thought when you have completed a chartered qual.
Your points may be mis-leading for those just starting out, i'ts like saying one A-Level is "just" one step below an honours degree when everyone knows the level and amount of work that goes into one degree is far greater than one A-level.
Neil
Hi,
At this stage I think that other students should look at the evidence rather than personal viewpoints as they can be misleading.
ACCA is 1 NVQ level away from AAT. This is clearly stated in the evidence which I have offered and is backed up by exemptions awarded by ACA and ACCA for those who have passed at AAT Technician level.
This is the very reason why many AAT students go on to study ACCA and ACA. They are at a level where they can more easliy understand the subject matter.
Regards0 -
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Hi,
At this stage I think that other students should look at the evidence rather than personal viewpoints as they can be misleading.
ACCA is 1 NVQ level away from AAT. This is clearly stated in the evidence which I have offered and is backed up by exemptions awarded by ACA and ACCA for those who have passed at AAT Technician level.
This is the very reason why many AAT students go on to study ACCA and ACA. They are at a level where they can more easliy understand the subject matter.
Regards
I think everyone should be allowed to have the own opinion. They can follow your advice (because you have 'evidence') or they can choose Neils advice because of his personal experience as with others. I agree with Neil Btw if they can easily understand the subject matter not so many would fail 0 -
messedup89 wrote: »or the mature student entrye route.
I think its because the 3 skills papers are similar to AAT (not sure which level). Therefore more basic than the higher up levels
I see. Thanks for that answer. Just seems a bit surprising for what is classed as a postgraduate level course.0 -
messedup89 wrote: »I think everyone should be allowed to have the own opinion. They can follow your advice (because you have 'evidence') or they can choose Neils advice because of his personal experience as with others. I agree with Neil
Another "straw man" argument. Misquote the opposition and then launch a counter attack.
(lol)0 -
Hi,
At this stage I think that other students should look at the evidence rather than personal viewpoints as they can be misleading.
ACCA is 1 NVQ level away from AAT. This is clearly stated in the evidence which I have offered and is backed up by exemptions awarded by ACA and ACCA for those who have passed at AAT Technician level.
This is the very reason why many AAT students go on to study ACCA and ACA. They are at a level where they can more easliy understand the subject matter.
Regards
But your one step theory suggests there is just "one notch" up when going from AAT to a chartered qual. It's like saying the difference between a Cert HE and a PhD is just one step when anyone would know the hoops you have to go through to get a PhD are far in excess of that required by a Cert HE.
Unfortunately the evidence you have presented lacks sufficient detail for people to actually be able to evaluate what the step is between an NVQ 4 and 5, sayings it's only one step makes it sound insignificantand is generalising. Again, you may want to clarify your stance once you've completed ACCA or ACA. Pieces of paper can say one thing, but its different to actually know something first hand.
Neil0 -
Another "straw man" argument. Misquote the opposition and then launch a counter attack.
(lol)[/QUOTE
Typical response. Basically no ones opinion is right but yours. You dont even c anyone elses opinion. And that wasn't an 'argument' or 'counter attack'. Is was my opinion that there is a big leap between AAT and ACCA. Thats all0 -
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I have read this thread and am interested with RowanB's initial postingHow is it that being AAT qualified is valued so much by employers, yet passing AAT without any substantial accountancy experience is considered almost worthless?
I think I will add to that:
CIMA and ACCA
I'm pleased that I vary rarely see students studying ACCA or CIMA (or AAT for that matter) without any experience. For one thing all this exam preparation etc is very hard work, and to put yourself through it with no real understanding of whether you'll enjoy doing the job at the end does seem very risky.
On the rare occassion when I have met some passed finalists from ACCA or CIMA it is probably of no surprise to find that few found their exam success gave them entry to a job in accounts. Sometimes I have even found these exam successes have had to go back to basics just to start an accountancy career. If the opportunity exists to study accountancy AND work in it side-by-side, I recommend that you take it.
If you don't you could be over-qualified and under-experienced at the same time.Sandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
I have read this thread and am interested with RowanB's initial posting
I think I will add to that:
CIMA and ACCA
I'm pleased that I vary rarely see students studying ACCA or CIMA (or AAT for that matter) without any experience. For one thing all this exam preparation etc is very hard work, and to put yourself through it with no real understanding of whether you'll enjoy doing the job at the end does seem very risky.
On the rare occassion when I have met some passed finalists from ACCA or CIMA it is probably of no surprise to find that few found their exam success gave them entry to a job in accounts. Sometimes I have even found these exam successes have had to go back to basics just to start an accountancy career. If the opportunity exists to study accountancy AND work in it side-by-side, I recommend that you take it.
If you don't you could be over-qualified and under-experienced at the same time.
Thank you. This is a brilliant post. This is exactly why I asked the original question. Is it worth me completing AAT without acquiring practical experience ? Am I in danger of becoming a passed finalist?0 -
Rowan
In my opinion you are in danger of becoming a passed finalist. My recommendation is to try to find a job- where you can find whether you like the work or not
- where you can apply the practical aspects
- where you can enhance your theoretical understanding
A foot in the door would be a start even if you consider the job is
Afterall you are proving your employability in accounts just as much as the suitability of accounts to you.some mediocre accounts positionSandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
Rowan
In my opinion you are in danger of becoming a passed finalist. My recommendation is to try to find a job- where you can find whether you like the work or not
- where you can apply the practical aspects
- where you can enhance your theoretical understanding
A foot in the door would be a start even if you consider the job is
Afterall you are proving your employability in accounts just as much as the suitability of accounts to you.
I think you've misinterpreted the motive behind my original post. I'd love to do a mediocre accounts position, and have been trying really hard to find one for a long time. I'm flexible, and have offered my services for free to many firms.
I was intrigued by how much employers value the AAT qualification when all it is, is theory. Why should their attitude change to such a large extent after obtaining any kind of accounts work?
That's very interesting that I'm in danger of becoming a passed finalist, hence my original question. Essentially, 'what is the point in passing AAT?' It seems, it's not worth it, unless you're already in an accounts position. I should probably have waited till I'd found accounts work before starting Technician Level.0 -
I was intrigued by how much employers value the AAT qualification when all it is, is theory. Why should their attitude change to such a large extent after obtaining any kind of accounts work?I'm pleased that I vary rarely see students studying ACCA or CIMA (or AAT for that matter) without any experience. For one thing all this exam preparation etc is very hard work, and to put yourself through it with no real understanding of whether you'll enjoy doing the job at the end does seem very risky.
You cannot 'pass' ACCA or CIMA without 3years experience in a role, am i right?
Anyway, back to the AAT. It is much like any apprenticeship. The theory and the practical (so to speak) mean nothing on their own but place them together and you have a winner.
I may have been lucky getting a job so easily, or maybe it is just because I wasn't looknig in the middle of a recession? But, the experience is easily obtainable, the qualification is not. Now, what I mean is, anyone can work as a PL clerk of Credit Controller for a few years, but putting in the time and effort (and sometimes money) to obtain a qualification to progress your career is what employers want to see. I find that for a lot of employers, the fact you are studying at all plays half as much importance as what it is you are actually studying because it shows dedication and commitment to work.
If you can obtain your AAT qualification without working alongside it then that is OK, as someone somewhere will eventually give you a break to get the experience required. But you can't question the point of the qual, nor can you question it's value without experience, as any qualification is like that in any career. For example I can tell you that being an NVQ level 3 Light Vehicle Technician (Mechanic!
) is not at all valuable until you have experience. Bearing in mind it takes 2-3 years to pass the NVQ, most workshop's & garage's would really hesitate taking you on until you have at least 5 years experience AFTER completion of the NVQ (thats nigh on a decade in the job by that point), so you end up stuck at whatever workplace you did your apprenticeship at. I know this, because I qualified as a level 3 'Light Vehicle Technician' (mechanic!). 0 -
You cannot 'pass' ACCA or CIMA without 3years experience in a role, am i right?
Anyway, back to the AAT. It is much like any apprenticeship. The theory and the practical (so to speak) mean nothing on their own but place them together and you have a winner.
I may have been lucky getting a job so easily, or maybe it is just because I wasn't looknig in the middle of a recession? But, the experience is easily obtainable, the qualification is not. Now, what I mean is, anyone can work as a PL clerk of Credit Controller for a few years, but putting in the time and effort (and sometimes money) to obtain a qualification to progress your career is what employers want to see. I find that for a lot of employers, the fact you are studying at all plays half as much importance as what it is you are actually studying because it shows dedication and commitment to work.
If you can obtain your AAT qualification without working alongside it then that is OK, as someone somewhere will eventually give you a break to get the experience required. But you can't question the point of the qual, nor can you question it's value without experience, as any qualification is like that in any career. For example I can tell you that being an NVQ level 3 Light Vehicle Technician (Mechanic!) is not at all valuable until you have experience. Bearing in mind it takes 2-3 years to pass the NVQ, most workshop's & garage's would really hesitate taking you on until you have at least 5 years experience AFTER completion of the NVQ (thats nigh on a decade in the job by that point), so you end up stuck at whatever workplace you did your apprenticeship at. I know this, because I qualified as a level 3 'Light Vehicle Technician' (mechanic!).
Good post. I'm encouraged that you believe it wouldn't be so detrimental for me to complete AAT without practical experience. Yes, I can see your point about how experience combines well with the theory. I was particularly intrigued by the fact the qualification can be passed without practical experience. You'd think experience would be an integral part of the course.0 -
Good post. I'm encouraged that you believe it wouldn't be so detrimental for me to complete AAT without practical experience. Yes, I can see your point about how experience combines well with the theory. I was particularly intrigued by the fact the qualification can be passed without practical experience. You'd think experience would be an integral part of the course.
Hi Rowan,
With the NVQ route experience is part of the couse overall as you need to confirm your 1 year worth of work expericence within 2 years of passing the Technician exams.
This allows you to become a full member of the AAT.
By definition you can pass all the exams without experience and gain the experience within the 2 year deadline.
Regards0 -
Hi Rowan,
With the NVQ route experience is part of the couse overall as you need to confirm your 1 year worth of work expericence within 2 years of passing the Technician exams.
This allows you to become a full member of the AAT.
Regards
That's to become a full member of the AAT. You can actually complete the qualification without practical experience and besides, why have the diploma route which is geared at those who aren't in accounts jobs?0 -
That's to become a full member of the AAT. You can actually complete the qualification without practical experience and besides, why have the diploma route which is geared at those who aren't in accounts jobs?
Hi again,
I have not got much knowledge of the Diploma route other than to say that I believe that they spend more class time doing practical examples to make up for work experience?? Maybe other members can comment on this?? Do you have to invest more class hours with the Diploma course to make up for the work experience???
One point is that if you are unable, for genuine reasons, to find voluntary work or paid work whilst doing the NVQ route or within 2 years of passing the exams, would the AAT extend this deadline??
Also, if you were not motivated to find work within this time, I think the deadline would be relevant.
With reference to the the Diploma Route, I called UCAS this morning to find out whether it carries UCAS points under their new guidelines. They were busy today but I will let you know when I get this information.
Regards0 -
Hi again,
I have not got much knowledge of the Diploma route other than to say that I believe that they spend more class time doing practical examples to make up for work experience?? Maybe other members can comment on this?? Do you have to invest more class hours with the Diploma course to make up for the work experience???
Regards
At Kaplan Diploma students attend college as often as NVQ students. They just learn some slighty different things (like MAC instead of PEV&PCR) and obviously dont have to do a portfolio0 -
messedup89 wrote: »At Kaplan Diploma students attend college as often as NVQ students. They just learn some slighty different things (like MAC instead of PEV&PCR) and obviously dont have to do a portfolio
Hi, how many days a week do you attend the Technician Diploma course?0
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