What is the point in passing AAT?
Comments
-
Hi, how many days a week do you attend the Technician Diploma course?
Im part time so it depends how many units you chose to sit. I only sat DFS this December (did PEV & PCR) in June. From sept - dec i went to college 3days for tuition, 2 for revision, 1 for a mock and then the actually exam. Its not necessarily every week or fortnightly0 -
Hi Sandy,
I tried the UCAS website yesterday but there is not mention of the AAT diploma regarding UCAS points.
Also UCAS only quote points for NVQ3 (advanced level) at 160 points and there is no scoring listed for Technician NVQ4
Once I get the information on both I will pass it on.0 -
I'm pretty sure it will be worth exactly the same as the NVQ route. Both pathways amount to the same qualification.0
-
Hi, yes, it sounds like you have to invest more time in the Diploma course to make up for the work experience. With the NVQ route it was only 1 day a week for 1 educational year (Sept - June)
Regards0 -
-
What i said was for NVQ, But at kaplan Diploma attend for the same amount of days as there in our lessons.Hi, yes, it sounds like you have to invest more time in the Diploma course to make up for the work experience. With the NVQ route it was only 1 day a week for 1 educational year (Sept - June)
Regards0 -
I don't know if this adds anything to what has already been said but I am doing the diploma route by distance learning. I didn't actually pick to do the diploma route rather than the NVQ route, maybe thats all Premier Training were offering at the time. I have years of experience in accounts related roles so it wasn't because I had no work experience that ended up on this route. I would hope that the diploma attracts UCAS points, it seems pretty unfair that it shouldn't, especially if people weren't aware at the time they began their studies.0
-
Hi, yes, it sounds like you have to invest more time in the Diploma course to make up for the work experience. With the NVQ route it was only 1 day a week for 1 educational year (Sept - June)
Regards
Yes, I see. The point is, that extra work won't be seen by employers as a substitute for practical experience, and if Sandy's fears that I might become a passed finalist are vindicated, it seems baffling that practical experience isn't an integral part of the qualification.0 -
I don't know if this adds anything to what has already been said but I am doing the diploma route by distance learning. I didn't actually pick to do the diploma route rather than the NVQ route, maybe thats all Premier Training were offering at the time. I have years of experience in accounts related roles so it wasn't because I had no work experience that ended up on this route. I would hope that the diploma attracts UCAS points, it seems pretty unfair that it shouldn't, especially if people weren't aware at the time they began their studies.
Hi,
I will speak to UCAS over the coming week and see what their policy is on points for the AAT Diploma course.
As you know, you are entitled to up to 5 ACA (chartered) exemptions whether you take the NVQ or Diploma pathway.0 -
You invest the same amount of college time for diploma as you do for NVQ0
-
-
messedup89 wrote: »3 for ACCA
which qualification do you get with ACCA? NVQs too?0 -
pernickety wrote: »I began by putting "AAT" in search criteria of all of them. Virtually all of the searches with the many agencies etc returned absolutely nothing! Can you believe it? And, we are to believe that employers value the qualification? Not until I input "accounts" or "bookkeeper" did I get anything returned on the search and all wanted a multitude of experience.
I put "AAT" in search criteria for practice jobs and have 1/2 results.....I put "ACCA" or "CIMA" or "ACA" and I have plenty of results....why is that?? AAT are not good for practice jobs? I'm sure we are better bookkepers than chartered ones....
I'm work in a practice and I don't understand why job adverts for practice companies don't include the AAT in their requirements.0 -
I think it's because ACA CIMA and ACCA are all slightly higher and since we're in a recessions, employers can be picky if they like.0
-
I put "AAT" in search criteria for practice jobs and have 1/2 results.....I put "ACCA" or "CIMA" or "ACA" and I have plenty of results....why is that?? AAT are not good for practice jobs? I'm sure we are better bookkepers than chartered ones....
I'm work in a practice and I don't understand why job adverts for practice companies don't include the AAT in their requirements.
I think a lot of employers underestimate AAT. I've done AAT and now doing ACCA. If I was recruiting for a book keeper type position I'd look for AAT. Probably better for that position and cheaper!
0 -
What is the point in passing AAT?
If nothing else feeling extremely good for achieving it?
0 -
True, Marga. That's actually my biggest motivation at the moment. Want the satisfaction as much as anything.0
-
When my children grow up, ill be encouraging them, not to go to university, but to get a job and then get some day release/ work placed qualifications so that work experience can compliment qualifications and visa versa. So that 3 years isnt spent gaining qualifications but no work experience. My views on this havent ever changed regardless of the current climate.
Even occassionally going for other jobs in accounts/ finance, ive sometimes been told i dont have the experience. (the rest of the time because i dont have the qualifications) And apparently its my own field. It is frustrating, but for me to spend some time, say qualifying to be a WHATEVER off my own back, and then to expect a job as a WHATEVER, for me, is a no brainer. Who would give me a job with no experience? Especially as id be competing against people possibly a lot younger! Let along what i could expect to earn. I chose/ fell into accountancy, and that for me has to be future.
After 20 years in accountancy, ive finally recently completed AAT. However, i work in an area where all my bosses have more than AAT (wont mention what here). All nice enuf people, mostly technically good, but not always good managers though, ie. they often think about themselves and their own egos, and they love the fact they have a higher qualification, and until i have what they have, to them ill always be a lesser member of the team. Theyve worked for it, so fair play to them i guess, their prerogative..
So, in my opinion, at an early stage, decide what you want to do, get an appropriate job, get work based training/ qualifications, get as many/ much as you can, and then enjoy being at the, or near the, top of the tree.
Otherwise, generally speaking youll always be up against it. And dont assume just because you have the qualifications, that you are actually any good! Ive heard and seen a fair bit of crap from well qualified people over the years, experience really is the most important thing you could have. Passing exams is the easy bit...0 -
That's a good post. Thanks for that.
Not sure how much you're directing that post at me, but for the record, I've never said that passing exams proves I'll be good, or that I'd expect to be employed on the basis of passing exams. In all honesty, I think it's quite easy to pass AAT by 'playing the system' rather than developing genuinely good accounting skills. I don't know why employers value it so much. I'm surprised experience isn't integral to the qualification. That's just my opinion.0 -
I had a look around the site because I wanted to clarify the point you had raised. I found:On completion of the AAT qualification, plus one years relevant work experience, you can become an AAT full member – a highly respected sign of accounting excellence.
Which I take as meaning:- Completing the AAT qualification is possible without ever entering an accounts office
- Becoming an AAT full member requires one year of relevant (ambiguous now, but I'm sure details are available) experience.
You may not wish to answer these questions publically, but I think they are important.
They are based on the point you made about not getting mediocre jobs.
Are your applications for such jobs not even getting you an interview?
And if so, have you asked anyone why?
Are you getting interviews, but other applicants are being selected and you are being rejected?
And if so, have you contacted the firms to try to find what it was that made the other applicant preferable?
I think this thread has shown already that getting a job in accounts is not a sequence which starts with doing AAT and automatically follows with getting a job in accounts. The fact that you are studying AAT is one of very many facets about you that a prospective employer will look at when making a decision.
Good luck with your next application/interviewSandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
You may not wish to answer these questions publically, but I think they are important.
They are based on the point you made about not getting mediocre jobs.
Are your applications for such jobs not even getting you an interview?
And if so, have you asked anyone why?
I have had five interviews for good accounting positions. I got these interviews through an agency, a spec. letter, two cover letter/ CV applications, and a telephone call.Are you getting interviews, but other applicants are being selected and you are being rejected?
And if so, have you contacted the firms to try to find what it was that made the other applicant preferable?
Yes. Four rejections were due to people having more accounts experience than me. One was because I mentioned wanting to progress to ACA qualification, and the firm was unable to guarantee me that.I think this thread has shown already that getting a job in accounts is not a sequence which starts with doing AAT and automatically follows with getting a job in accounts. The fact that you are studying AAT is one of very many facets about you that a prospective employer will look at when making a decision.
Yes. I completely appreciate that.Good luck with your next application/interview
Thank you.0 -
I think the most significant point was that in 4 of 5 interviews the reason for rejection was your accounts experience being less than that of the person appointed.
Did any of these employers have positions even lower than "mediocre" where you could gain such experience?
Also, as a side point, it is interesting to note that AAT success or otherwise was not an issue.Sandy
sandy@sandyhood.com
www.sandyhood.com0 -
That's a good post. Thanks for that.
Not sure how much you're directing that post at me, but for the record, I've never said that passing exams proves I'll be good, or that I'd expect to be employed on the basis of passing exams. In all honesty, I think it's quite easy to pass AAT by 'playing the system' rather than developing genuinely good accounting skills. I don't know why employers value it so much. I'm surprised experience isn't integral to the qualification. That's just my opinion.
a year to get full membership!?
I still thats upto the employer to decide what experience they want, or else you'll have AAT students really struggling to get both qualified and a job.0 -
I am employed as Head of Finance in a public sector organisation in rural Wales and one of my responsibilities is recruiting and selecting new staff for the Finance Department. I thought if I quickly outlined the recruiting process from an employers view you may appreciate how worthwhile not just passing exams, but in becoming a full AAT member is.
Recruitment is currently against a backdrop of high unemployment and very little staff movement. On the rare occaisions that a vacancy occurs at any level, I can expect between 50 and 100+ applications. I assume that employers in urban areas will get even more. Some how, I have to select 5 or 6 applicants to short list and interview. The selection process has to be robust as my decisions may be challenged.
For the organisation I work for, every post has a job description, listing the duties and responsibilities of the post, and a person specification, listing the required qualities of the post holder, eg. qualification, experience, specific skills required etc. Each quality is listed as being either essential or desirable. Qualifications may state, depending on the post, part AAT qualified or eqivalent; or full AAT qualified or equivalent, or something else. By a full member I mean not just having passed the exams, but also joining as a member, being able to use the MAAT letters and subject to CPD. As each vacancy arises I have to put a business case to the Policy Board to fill the post and review the job description and person specification.
So how to I reduce 50 to 100+ applications to 5 or 6, remembering that I have other work pressures (my day job). The first stage is test the application forms (we ignore CV's) against the essential items on the person specifications. those that do not meet the essential requirements are rejected. So if I have asked for full membership of AAT or equivalent, anyone who can not use the AAT letters, or equivalent, is rejected. If three years experience is essential (for some posts experience may be desirable, or not listed), than anyone without it is reject at the first sift.
If I still have not got down to my short list, I start comparing applicants to the desired requirements using a scoring system, the 5 or 6 applicants with the highest score get interviews.
If I am still not down to 5 or 6 applicants (which usually I am not), I will read the essay part of the application form very carefully, scoring each applicant on how relevant their experiences are to the job desription. Those with the most relevant experience get the interviews. All applicants selected for interview go in with an equal chance, the scores used for shortlisting are ignored.
In these tough times when applying for jobs you have to meet the essential person specification requirements, meet as many deirable requirements as possible, and demonstrate how relevant your experinces are to the post applied for (this does not mean that you have to have done the same job somewhere else, but have picked up skills that can be transfered into the post being applied for).
My tips are when applying for posts (particularly in the public sector) are: make it very clear in your application how you meet the person specification; go through each specification demonstrating how you meet it; when you write about your experiences clearly indicate how that maps on to the job desription of the post applied for; make sure your application is easy to read; and don't rely on sending in a standard CV. Each application you make should be tailored for the post applied for. Prospective employers need to know why you are the correct person for the post advertised, not for some general accounting post. You have to stand out somehow from all the other applicants.
My last concern on these posts, and this is a personal concern, lots of you are talking about offering your services free of charge to non charity organisations. If you all did that, there would be no paid jobs left, we would all be volunteers. Every time you volunteer, that is one less paid job! I qite like being paid for what I do.
Good luck in your job hunting and hopefully as the economy recovers, as AAT students and members you will be better placed to take advantage of an expanding workforce.0 -
A superlative post Steve.0
-
It sounds like I probably work for the same public sector as Steve but in Kent.
If I want to gain promotion for the next grade and they state a requirement for AAT qualified, even though I have 15+ years experience in teh Finance/Procurement department without the qualification there is no point in me applying.
So in my case the experience is all well and good but without the qualification I would not stand a chance either.
At this time in the job market it is a case of every little bit helps but cannot guarantee anything.0 -
An absolutely excellent post Steve! I will always refer to that when making job applications.
Good point also that in a sense, experience is integral to the qualification in terms of requirements for becoming a full member of the AAT.0 -
Made A Decision!
Thanks for everyone's opinion on my situation and the question I asked. Particularly Blobby, Sandy, Stevef, AndyPandy, Messed Up, Richard K, Don Juan, Marga and others. There has been a brilliant reponse and some very insightful answers from some well experienced people.
I have come to the conclusion that the most time/ cost effective career move for me is to abandon my AAT studies, build upon my BSc Hons in Maths and Statistics and pursue my desire to do to an MSc in Statistics. The best thing is, I am unlikely to be thwarted by the catch 22 scenario of lack of practical experience presented by the accountancy sector, as high calibre MSc Statistics graduates tend to walk straight into quantitative professions.
Thanks again everyone, and all the best of luck with your careers/ studies! 0 -
The best thing is, I am unlikely to be thwarted by the catch 22 scenario of lack of practical experience presented by the accountancy sector, as high calibre MSc Statistics graduates tend to walk straight into quantitative professions.
Do you have any real evidence of that having happened within this deep recession where rising unemployment amongst recently qualified graduates seems to be becoming almost a national crisis?
I'd recommend completing your AAT studies as you will still end up with a qualification that is valued and recognised by many employers for when better times return - which they eventually will. Okay, so you won't become an FD on AAT alone but it's a damn good start to the higher levels and certainly far preferable to an accounting degree. I've never heard of the term 'passed finalist' (I'm 42!) but I honestly think you're spending too much time dwelling on this particular term while missing the bigger point that you will have gained some accounting theory for when you eventually manage to break into the profession.
Only you can decide which way to go but good luck with your choice.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.2K Books to buy and sell
- 2.3K General discussion
- 12.5K For AAT students
- 323 NEW! Qualifications 2022
- 160 General Qualifications 2022 discussion
- 11 AAT Level 2 Certificate in Accounting
- 56 AAT Level 3 Diploma in Accounting
- 93 AAT Level 4 Diploma in Professional Accounting
- 8.8K For accounting professionals
- 23 coronavirus (Covid-19)
- 273 VAT
- 92 Software
- 274 Tax
- 138 Bookkeeping
- 7.2K General accounting discussion
- 201 AAT member discussion
- 3.8K For everyone
- 38 AAT news and announcements
- 345 Feedback for AAT
- 2.8K Chat and off-topic discussion
- 582 Job postings
- 16 Who can benefit from AAT?
- 36 Where can AAT take me?
- 42 Getting started with AAT
- 26 Finding an AAT training provider
- 48 Distance learning and other ways to study AAT
- 25 Apprenticeships
- 66 AAT membership