FAO Steve
Comments
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Why is every college that I look at so expensive? It is so unfair that students especially mature students like me don't get the opportunity to study and achieve our hopes without shelling out thousands..I'm struggling with ACCA and feel that the whole education system for trainee accountants is daylight robbery.
You seem to be contradicting yourself: on one hand you suggest that a "budget" approach to study isn't adequate or sufficient, yet on the other hand you say that a method that would work is too expensive. Has it occurred to you that whilst the prices of tuition courses are far more expensive than self study, the non-monetary value of them is just as much greater - in other words you'll get what you pay for?
Unfortunately the professional education system isn’t a charity and I don’t think that it is unfair or unjust to trainees for them to contribute financially to their tuition. As has been mentioned, taking the qualification is an investment and if you want a good return you may have to resign your self to the fact that a certain amount of minimal investment is needed. I'd like a return on a hedge fund, but it's not going to happen if all I put in is my rainy day money!
Neil0 -
I am sure that the ACCA Forums would have its own tutors, and inviduals who are similar to Steve & Sandy in that they provide support classes.
Nothing in this life is free, you have to work damn hard at it & i appreciate that "money makes the world go round", but if it is such a set back postpone for a few month s& save up. BPP is a very good provider, I have heard nothing but support from my colleague who uses there course and tuition/revisions days.0 -
Being one of the student having not only the pleasure but the great opertunity of attending two of steves revisions days i understand the amount of work in preperation it must take and time away from his own time not including the effort on the day itself.
We are students but it doesnt give us the right to demand to be tought but to be greatful for any support given.0 -
Hello Glynis
I am a BPP tutor and subject specialist in auditing. At BPP our pass rates are very high in comparison ti other tuition providers because we invest in quality tutors and material. However our students have to pay to get such a high level of tuition and material but as Steve quite rightly points out, this should be viewed as an investment in your future.
Glynis some of my students struggle with audit especially if they don't work in audit practice and I suspect you are a distance learner??? If this is the case then you really would benefit from extra tuition as audit can become quite complex. You have asked a lot of advice from Steve on here and he has given it to you and if I were you I would take his advice on board. Steve is very well known in the financial reporting circles and is very well respected.
Feel free to PM me if you would like me to send you a BPP brochure for our revision days.
Good luck with your studies.0 -
Glynis you state you are a mature student, and are struggling with the cost of courses. I have just completed my AAT and starting with CIMA. I completed all the exams with books or home study and attended BPP for the skills tests. I do not feel that they are expensive for the service and additional support you get.
I am also a mature student (almost 45) and have paid for all my own study. It was a qualification that I wanted and am very proud of and was more than willing to progress as my budget allowed.
Steve and Sandy give so much of their time and knowledge as well as working full time they cannot do anymore for us students. I am very grateful that they do what the do.
If you are struggling with that paper the study one that is easier and do the course when your budget allows.0 -
Thanks for the replies. I am feeling down about this ACCA course as I desprately want to be qualified and prove to myself that I can achieve more than I have but it just seenms impossible.
Julia does BPP give discounts to mature students? I am probably way off mark but how on earth Bpp can justify their prices is beyond me.0 -
Glynis have you tried your local college? Maybe you could apply for student grant or funding and i know our college offers ACCA fundermentals for 1200 per year0
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Thanks for the replies. I am feeling down about this ACCA course as I desprately want to be qualified and prove to myself that I can achieve more than I have but it just seenms impossible.
Julia does BPP give discounts to mature students? I am probably way off mark but how on earth Bpp can justify their prices is beyond me.
Well, they can charge whatever they like: no-one is forced to use them if they don't want to and a lot of people are willing to pay for them. A lot of people have employer support, but I'm not one of them. I think the quality of the teaching, and the teaching materials, is high enough to justify the expense. Admittedly the cost does mean I'm going a little slower than I'd like, but that also means I have time to try and work myself into a better position jobwise so I can apply for full membership soon after I complete the last CIMA exam.
There are cheaper options of course, some local colleges or universities will run ACCA courses. Maybe even some Open University Business School teaching materials would be of use to you, even if they weren't a 100% match to the ACCA syllabus?0 -
A-vic I will look at my local college but they have already told me their courses are filled up until next year.
What I need is a job in practice to get the study support as its not easy as a mature student getting the funds to pay. Problem is bloody useless agencies who are paid a fortune but don't do the work for their customers. They realky are rubbish at doing what they are supposed to do!0 -
Julia does BPP give discounts to mature students? I am probably way off mark but how on earth Bpp can justify their prices is beyond me.
Since you've never been on one, you can't appreciate the quality of the courses and the notes and it's worth noting that about a quarter of the fees goes towards four components of materials. Also, the courses aren't just about the time you spend in class as you have a tutor on tap to personally answer any queries you have, mark assessments that come very close to the real exams, all the way up to the exam itself, and the courses include exam preparation way beyond what any text can do.
BPP charge for a four day course what some education providers charge for one day of CPD. If you were to equate ACCA or CIMA into equivalent university time, uni fees would be more and you could quite possibly have more students per tutor.
Are BPP (and similar) courses expensive? Yes, but worth every penny if you want to a) pass your exams and b) not just pass the exam but really learn and know the subject.
Neil0 -
Neil I am not disputing that BPP courses are very good and I am sure both you and Julie are accurate about them but what I dispute are the fees charged especially when some of us have to pay for ourself. What was Labours speec? Education education education. People like me should have the right to better quality education at affordable prices as well as a better chance at getting the jobs we need and deserve.0
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Maybe if you applied for the correct jobs you'd have a better chance...0
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Problem is bloody useless agencies who are paid a fortune but don't do the work for their customers. They realky are rubbish at doing what they are supposed to do!
Wrong. Customers of recruitment agencies are the ones who pay them to search for candidates for positions they need to fill e.g. HSBC, Barclays, Samsung etc. Candidates are simply the resource needed for the agencies, you are NOT the customer as you're not paying them directly to find you work. If they were all rubbish at what they did clients wouldn't continue to successfully use them and the recruitment industry wouldn't continue to exist today. Fact.
Please understand the differences before you continue on yet another agency rant, Glynis.0 -
Right Blobby. Fact. Agencies are the worst sort of people to get jobs off. Fact. Agencies don't return calls when they should. Fact. Agency staff are incompetent and rubbish at finding us jobs that they are asked to do. Fact. We are customers we generate money for them. Fact. Agencies misell jobs to get people on there books. Fact!!0
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And another thing if you feel agencies are so wonderful then why the hell are there so many of us wanting better jobs. Bet you can't answer that while your on your high horse can you.0
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Damn, I guess I'll have to go in on Monday and tell my MD to pack up shop because although some people are just simply too crap for us and others to find them jobs, it's still somehow our fault and we've failed them all.
Fact.0 -
Well yes. That might be an idea seeing some of us have to do the legwork ourselves.
Fact!0 -
Oh and just for the record, I am not crap as you so kindly put it you horrible little cretin. I am very good at what I do, but then as you are pro agencies you wouldn't know.0
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Right Blobby. Fact. Agencies are the worst sort of people to get jobs off. Fact. Agencies don't return calls when they should. Fact. Agency staff are incompetent and rubbish at finding us jobs that they are asked to do. Fact. We are customers we generate money for them. Fact. Agencies misell jobs to get people on there books. Fact!!
doesnt surprise me YOU dont get anything from an agency
if i'd work for one and i'd read this ....never in my mind would i even think about putting you through for a job...0 -
Whatever you say. And then once we've called all our successful candidates to tell them their wonderful jobs are off, we'll give Reed, Manpower, Kelly Services and all the others a quick bell to tell them to not bother anymore cos disgustingly none of us could find that world class Glynis off the AAT forums her dream job in practice.
Gutted.0 -
Marga I am not an unpleasant person. O am simply someone who wants to make a comfortable living but who has made some wrong decisions in the past but now wants to do something right.
Blobby you have taken an instant dislike to me since I came on these forums. You parade around here as if you own them and disrespect everyone who has a different opinion than you. I am probably a lot older and a lot more experienced than you will ever be and I won't be bullied like you try with others on here who do not agree with you.0 -
Glynis i think the only way to answer your comments is in the same way you have - you have been given a lot of good advise from a lot of what you call mature students but i think the only words you will understand is suck it up the world does not owe you a favour rewards come with hard work and dedication and then if they dont its up to yourself to change it.
Please do yourself and everyone a favour stop blaming everyone else for YOUR struggles and DEAL WITH IT.
Now cant we get back to forum normality.0 -
No Glynis, I don't disrespect everyone, just you because you deserve every bloody word that's ever been written against you on here. What makes you think you're more experienced than me? Do you know my work history in detail? Steve is also younger than you, is he also less experienced?
You're undoubtedly very age-ist and incredibly rude to everyone who you don't like, both in your working life - the auditors who were useless simply because they were younger than you, useless agencies, useless tutors, useless everyone apart from you - and on here ref your calling me a cretin just four posts back, the way you seemingly ignore everyone else on here who isn't Steve or Sandy.
I bully no-one and anyone who personally knows me, knows I absolutely cannot abide bullies. However nor do I have much time for cry babies either, people who think the whole world is their enemy and owes them a living.
Please Keep posting Glynis because no matter how useless I sometimes feel at the end of a hard day, I can always come on here, read your latest tale of self inflicted woe and count my blessings that there's always someone worse off than me. Cheers!0 -
................what I dispute are the fees charged especially when some of us have to pay for ourself.
This is very interesting question asked regularly on this forum. Some how students have the impression that they are paying over the odds for their education.
I am going to try and apply my costing knowledge to work out how much should a student pay to the service providers.
I am going to make certain assumptions;
1 No government funding. - Students to pay FULL COSTS
2 Tutor's costs to include Employer's NIC and Pension contribution teaching for 36 weeks in a year.
3 Admin Staff costs to include Employ's NIC and Pension contribution to be absorbed in 36 weeks
4 FIVE Days teaching course (found this on Kplan website- but may vary between 5 and 8 days)
5 Profit margin at 15 % (do you think this is reasonable?)
........£
.....1000 ...MATERIAL COST per course
.....1167 ...Tutor's cost (£42000/36 weeks) (1 week = 5 days)
.......695 ...Rent of premises (£25000/36 weeks)
.......833 ...Office Admin Salaries (£30000 /36 weeks)
.......139 ...Office expenses (£5000 /36 weeks)
.....3834 ...Total Cost
.......676 ...Profit Margin at 15%
.....4510 ...Required sales for the course
Cost per Student and Profit Margin earned per Student
IF 20 Students enrolled cost = £225 and profit margin per student = £34
IF 15 Students enrolled cost = £301 and profit margin per student = £45
IF 10 Students enrolled cost = £451 and profit margin per student = £68
Do the above fees SOUND reasonable?
Are my assumptions reasonable?
I am very surpised at How Steve can offer his revision cousres for only £25 or so........ I think he is being charitable...
Sandy's prices are more then reasonable ay £100 per day, (equating to less then 2OK per year)
He won't be able to make a living at these prices from his courses organied for AAT revision. He will definately need air fare paid for S.Africa at this prices.0 -
Glynis
I am hoping here I can save you from yourself!
Glynis I admire and respect the fact that you are a mature student who is trying to make something of themself. However, this comes at a price and whichever route you take you will always have to sacrifice something. If you are a distance learner this will be money, if you are on a training contract with a firm it will be time. Either way you have to invest something from yourself. Others can help, but ultimately you are in charge of your own life and destiny and ultimately YOU are the one that can only help YOU. Agencies can offer support and assistance, but only you can make a difference to your life.
Before I became qualified I craved for the letters after my name, I craved to be the best I could in my chosen profession, I craved to help others and I also craved to work as hard as I could to get it. This urge paid off.....eventually! My message to you Glynis is to stop blaming other people/institutions - see this as a 'process'. I went through a process before I qualified and became what I am today, Annette (Bluewednesday) did, Sandy Hood did, we all did. Throughout the journey of becoming qualified and becoming who we are today sometimes means coming across hurdles in the way - these hurdles are meant to be overcome and they will be with sheer determination and postivity!
Stop all this negative "it's all their fault" "Agencies are crap" rubbish - this will not solve the problem for you. We are all in charge of our own lives, how we live our lives is up to us - not other people!
Best wishes
Steve0 -
Steve thankyou. I am becoming really depressed about all this and don't need the likes of blobby having a go at me.0
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What am trying to say is there are a lot of new students on here that if you can remember how hard it was starting out need to read words of encouragement and see motivation to continue.
I remember 2.5 years ago looking on here thinking omg the people posting at this level were extreamly clever and i would never get this far, now i have reached this level would like to motivate them like the likes of steve annette and sandy have.
please take time and a breath before you post and be proud you have got this far and remember all the herdles you have tackled to get here.
Also i have to say i am disgusted in the way you treat people you see as your subordants in practise i treat every client cleaner boss postman person who makes my wonderful cappacino in the morning with the same respect fact.0 -
Glynis Robert is sticking up for agencies because he works at one. When you were having a go at the auditors I stuck up for your auditors but I didn't see threads calling me a "cretin"! I think you were a bit out of line there. Robert has his point of view which should be respected, as you have your point of view.
Glynis I do worry about the effect your quest is having on your health. I notice from your post on the MIP forums re the auditors you have already been off work due to stress. Isn't all this urge to change your job, study for ACCA and develop your career all at once not taking its toll?
Working in practice can be stressful and (no disrespect intended) but you don't seem to be able to handle stressful situations very well. How would you react to a client screaming down the phone at you? You can't lose your temper, you have to pacify them and (again with all respect) the way you come across on the forums, I don't think you have that sort of people skill. In addition if you are wanting to work in audit, the chances are your audit senior is going to be younger than you, given that most qualifieds come out of their exams in their late 20's, early 30's, and (again with all respect) you do seem to have a problem with those younger than you.
I do wish you well Glynis in your quest, but would urge you to understand that there will be lots of twists and turns in your journey but with determination, a positive attitude and a willingness to take the knock-backs and recover from them, you will reap the rewards. I did.
Best wishes
Steve0 -
Steve I am in my late 40s and yes I do want to make something of myself. I have 2 children who are grown up and I am probably older than you. How old are you? 25? 26? And you've done it. I find it so patronising to have a person younger than me telling me it will be ok and I have to work for it. OF COURSE I have to work for it but I HAVE worked for it. I've been working for it for nearly 30 bloody years but still get told by people like you who are young enough to be my children that I have to work harder than I already have!0
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How old are you? 25? 26?
I wish - the memories of being that age though are very good!:)
I don't know what else to say Glynis apart from good luck in your quest. I hope you succeed, but you need to be positive. You won't achieve anything with a negative attitude because you won't believe in yourself that you can really do it. Only by believing in yourself (but in the right way) can you get what you want.
The only way you are going to realise your ambitions is to persevere and take knock-backs on the chin, get back up and go on. If it's meant to happen, it will.
Best wishes
Steve0
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