Institute of Financial Accountants
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Hello all,
I have noticed recently that the term "accountant" is appearing in more AAT official material. Rather than just "technician". Which is good news. I have seen it in a few places but here is the only one I can quickly find so early in the morning.......
"We have over 3,400 licensed and regulated accountants to meet your needs"
AAT has a lot going for it when used properly - e.g. AAT branch network support and MIP support really excel compared to CCAB. AAT does what it says on the tin and does it to a very high standard.
I see lots of CCAB people who never really use it to its full potential. Just as a CV tool (which its great for of course). Which is sad as they learn lots of skills where they could be running organisations, leading business etc. Not just sat in middle ranking roles that can be achieved through experience or AAT.
Happy easter all
Thanks Paul, I hadn't noticed that, but that is really good.
And yes, the AAT is an excellent professional body, for sure.0 -
AAT has a lot going for it when used properly - e.g. AAT branch network support and MIP support really excel compared to CCAB.I see lots of CCAB people who never really use it to its full potential. Just as a CV tool (which its great for of course). Which is sad as they learn lots of skills where they could be running organisations, leading business etc. Not just sat in middle ranking roles that can be achieved through experience or AAT.
I'm intrigued by these comments; can you expand on them because I'm not sure I understand them correctly?
Your first comment appears to suggest that CCABs don't have very good MiP support?
In your second comment, are you saying CCABs don't use the AAT's MiP support for its full potential?
Regards
Dean0 -
I agree with both comments.
Lots of people have commented to me that I get far more support from AAT than they get from their CCAB bodies.
In his second comment he is saying that lots of CCAB members do not use what they have learned to their full potential. Often working in a role where AAT training would have been adequate.0 -
deanshepherd wrote: »I agree with both comments.
Lots of people have commented to me that I get far more support from AAT than they get from their CCAB bodies.
In his second comment he is saying that lots of CCAB members do not use what they have learned to their full potential. Often working in a role where AAT training would have been adequate.
Can't say I agree at all.
Regards
Dean0 -
Do you think CCAB members get more support from their bodies than we do from AAT then?0
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Hi DeanS
I used to use the AAT helpline but now have a feeling that it's only for MIP's whereas any ACCA member can use the ACCA helpline and they have been brilliant on the couple of occasions I have used them.
Maybe I am just not looking in the right place but that was my experience.
I also find that ACCA branch network is guaranteed to do a tax update each year yet my AAT one doesn't. A minor thing but important to me.
It's true that i have learned things that I don't use anymore (mainly management accounting stuff) but then I learned some of that in AAT as well, I think it's the case of putting it all together and viewing it as a whole.
I don't normally (dare to) disagree with you - aren't I brave!!!0 -
No I'm not saying CCAB members get MORE support. All bodies provide support. You cannot say a body is better at providing support than another because by nature "support" is subjective.
To say that a CCAB doesn't use what they have learned to their full potential is, in my opinion a bit naive. Whilst I am whole heartedly an advocate of the AAT lets remain realistic and not blow our own trumpets too far!
Regards
Dean0 -
If I may weigh-in here?
I don't think it's fair to say that CCAB members don't use what they've learned, because that's a far to sweeping statement. But then, I don't think that's the argument that's being made.
Nearly 70% of FTSE100 companies have ACAs on their board of Directors. Obviously that's only one body, but it's fair to say that there are plenty of CCAB members who are using their qualifications fully.
However, I do feel that it is also true to say that there are also a significant number of CCAB members who aren't. I wonder if, rather than saying that many CCAB members don't fully utilise their skills, it might be more accurate to say that many Sole Practitioners are over-qualified?
Just my opinion. :cool2:0 -
I wonder if, rather than saying that many CCAB members don't fully utilise their skills, it might be more accurate to say that many Sole Practitioners are over-qualified?
This is the point being made. However I still disagree. A sole practitioner; as any man (women!) and his dog can walk through your door how can someone be over qualified.
I make my "question" above into a statement because this thread is about something other than CCABs. Plus these sorts of debates will continue until long after I've gone! I was curious at why the comments that were made, were made.
Regards
Dean0 -
Everyone can come up with examples where people are fully utilising their skills and where their particular body provides excellent support.
I think Paul C was just stating, in his opinion, that many (not all) CCAB members are underutilising their skills and there is a definite perception that the CCAB bodies do not do enough for their members (perhaps ICAEW more than ACCA).
Here's my opinion (and that's all it is):
I reckon that if you looked at the work every AAT member does, as a percentage, I would wager that they use a greater proportion of what they learned with AAT than CCAB members do with their qualification. I have no evidence for this other than I am both an AAT member and a CIOT member. Things I learned at AAT level I use every day of my life. Things I learned at CTA level I use perhaps once a month.
People often comment to me that I should be utilising my qualification more and doing higher level technical work so perhaps I am indeed underutilising my qualification.
Whether this is good, bad or irrelevant is up for discussion but I do agree with the sentiment.
On the support point, I agree ACCA is pretty good, although my colleague here looks jealously at my AAT Money Laundering Toolkit (no honestly they do!) and free CCH online access.
Again, pure guesswork here but if you were to survey AAT members about how satisfied they are with the support they receive from AAT I would wager you would get a higher satisfaction score than doing the same thing for CCAB members. Just go to your next update course and ask ICAEW members whether they feel they get a good return on their annual subscription.
That said, it is nice to see people defending their professional bodies - that didn't used to happen very often!0 -
Bluewednesday wrote: »Hi DeanS
I also find that ACCA branch network is guaranteed to do a tax update each year yet my AAT one doesn't. A minor thing but important to me.
Not wishing to get in to the debate here - but my local branch do not do these either, and I too find frustrating, so have requested they try to do them. But in the mean time, there is tax update webinars which AAT offer, the next one being tomorrow night (12th April, 6.30-8pm). You could find on AAT website I'm sure, but if you need a link to register, PM me.
Ange0 -
deanshepherd wrote: »Everyone can come up with examples where people are fully utilising their skills and where their particular body provides excellent support.
Exactly, so it is a naive comment to try and compare. Different bodies provide different things.think Paul C was just stating, in his opinion, that many (not all) CCAB members are underutilising their skills and there is a definite perception that the CCAB bodies do not do enough for their members (perhaps ICAEW more than ACCA).
Opinions are opinions, I can't knock that.
The perception is wrong. Or at least the people making the perception are mis-guided.
The ICAEW provides a awful lot to its members. I'd go so far to say that it provides more than the AAT. The problem is that there is a new breed of accountants coming through and are much more tech minded. The Institute recognise this and provides nearly all(99.9%) of it's content via their website. Accessed only with your membership number. Many ACAs don't realise what they have at their disposal. You'll probably get a "bloody Institute don't even provide us with a handbook anymore" type comment. However, it's all online via their portal, updated as and when you require it.
If you want me to give you a comparative example; I don't get weekly updates on tax changes from the AAT but I do with the ICAEW via their tax faculty. They also provide me with a library that I literally have thousands of books relevant to my work at my fingertips. This library is becoming more and more "ebook" orientated everyday. Saying CCAB bodies don't provide as well as the AAT is a touch daft!
Having said that, the AAT provide me with free food at their branch meetings. WIN!
Regards
Dean0 -
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deanshepherd wrote: »But perception IS reality.
I guess the professional bodies will have to do a better marketing job!
Perception is reality but if your world changes so should your perception.
Regards
Dean0 -
Deep..0
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deanshepherd wrote: »Deep..
Ha. I think it's my old age creeping up on me!0 -
I know this thread is rumbling on, but I am applying to Lloyds TSB for a business loan and have just received the following response:
"On your practice web-site you’re listed down as AAT qualified. Is this still accurate and can you confirm whether you hold any of the following:- IFA, ACA, FCA, FCCA, CAT, ACCA, CIPFA, CIMA and ATT.
Our credit policy for equity loans excludes AAT which means our general policies will apply."
I have told our bank manager that I am not too impressed as ATT is recognised but AAT isn't, let alone IFA. I suggested to him that I may just as well buy the IFA qualification if it helps with my application!0 -
I would be more upset about CAT being recognised and AAT not being! They are so similar it's scary!0
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Thanks for that. I forgot about CAT... Isn't that the ACCA equivalent?
Lloyds are coming in to see me in half an hour. I will let them know!
Regards0 -
Bluewednesday wrote: »I would be more upset about CAT being recognised and AAT not being! They are so similar it's scary!
Beat me to it on that comment!
One thing I would add though is that there is no professional regulation of CAT's. If they are an ACCA student then they are regulated by the same rules as students (inc. no public practice), but if they are not ACCA or students or even if they are members of the CAT alumni (if it still exists) then they can carry on public practice with no regulation!
Neil0 -
Thanks Neil.
I have just phoned AAT Member Services and let them know. Apparently there was a problem with Lloyds TSB last year with accountants reports on mortgage applications, which has now been resolved but they are going to contact Lloyds and see why this is.
Regards0 -
I know this thread is rumbling on, but I am applying to Lloyds TSB for a business loan and have just received the following response:
"On your practice web-site you’re listed down as AAT qualified. Is this still accurate and can you confirm whether you hold any of the following:- IFA, ACA, FCA, FCCA, CAT, ACCA, CIPFA, CIMA and ATT.
Our credit policy for equity loans excludes AAT which means our general policies will apply."
I have told our bank manager that I am not too impressed as ATT is recognised but AAT isn't, let alone IFA. I suggested to him that I may just as well buy the IFA qualification if it helps with my application!
This is laughable!
It means that as a AAT qualified accountant I can't certify a clients' business loan application. Although as a ATT qualified tax adviser I can. My AAT qualification is about 80/90% accounting focused compared to my ATT qualification which is about 1%!
I'm surprised they don't have "QBE" listed if IFA & CAT are!! meow!
Regards
Dean0 -
This is laughable!
It means that as a AAT qualified accountant I can't certify a clients' business loan application. Although as a ATT qualified tax adviser I can. My AAT qualification is about 80/90% accounting focused compared to my ATT qualification which is about 1%!
I'm surprised they don't have "QBE" listed if IFA & CAT are!! meow!
Regards
Dean
Quite.
And ATT is on the list but CTA isn't. Hello?!0
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