Institute of Financial Accountants
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jamesm96
Registered Posts: 523
Hi all, does anyone have any experience of the above?
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Hi Mike, I've heard of them and taken a look at their website. I know lots of firms of accountants are IFA members rather than AAT/ICAEW/etc. including some of the quite big names. Might I ask why you ask??0
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They are a non-chartered accounting body, but who are trying to get into CCAB - they made some progress recently, I believe.
AAT can get you into a lower level of IFA membership, though I've been told the level above that is also broadly equivalent to AAT.
AAT is still more widely respected in the profession I believe.
Some mortgage lenders who won't take AAT will take IFA references.
Not to be confused with the Financial Advisors IFA!0 -
AAT can get you into a lower level of IFA membership, though I've been told the level above that is also broadly equivalent to AAT.
AAT qualified used to be able to gain full membership of IFA, whereas now it only grants a junior level of membership. I think this came about as the IFA see themselves as "accountants" and not "technicians".
AAT is more widely recognised, particulalrly by employers.
Neil0 -
Might I ask why you ask??
Just that they seemed like a good potential body to join, enhance the CV / client appeal, that sort of thing. That, and the reasons that Monsoon's listed as well.They are a non-chartered accounting body, but who are trying to get into CCAB - they made some progress recently, I believe.
AAT can get you into a lower level of IFA membership, though I've been told the level above that is also broadly equivalent to AAT.
AAT is still more widely respected in the profession I believe.
Some mortgage lenders who won't take AAT will take IFA references.
Not to be confused with the Financial Advisors IFA!
Yeah their website says they're now members of IFAC; the CCAB thing would be very good though. (Although, presumably there'd be a restriction on auditing, or the requirement for a separate IFA qualification for auditors?)
So, is there any problem with being a member of both the IFA and the AAT?0 -
Yeah their website says they're now members of IFAC; the CCAB thing would be very good though. (Although, presumably there'd be a restriction on auditing, or the requirement for a separate IFA qualification for auditors?)
So, is there any problem with being a member of both the IFA and the AAT?
They are full members of IFAC, AAT are associate or affiliate whatever it's called. You can not audit with IFA as it's not a statutory recognised body (neither is CIMA for that matter). There is also some talk of them trying to become Chartered as part of 100th anniversary celebrations in a few years time.
I don't see any problem with being AAT and IFA member, other than two lots of fees to pay :-)0 -
IFAC, that's the one I was thinking of.
No problem with being both - apart from double subscription fees!
Occasionally a client will borrow from a lender who doesn't accept AAT and again I wonder if I should join the IFA just to ease things, but I can't bring myself to do it as it's just not as well respected a qualification, and I don't see the point in racking up yet more subscription fees.
At the end of the day, I'm an accountant. Even though the AAT defines me as a "technician," I feel that if I respect the AAT then I ought not to get another qualification just to tick the box that says "accountant" but to stand my ground that AAT does make me a qualified accountant.
Anyway, I'm less of an accountant these days and more of a tax advisor. I've discovered I'm not that excited by accountancy, and that tax is where it's at. One day I hope to be a CTA and thus I really won't need the IFA ;-)0 -
IFAC, that's the one I was thinking of.
No problem with being both - apart from double subscription fees!
Occasionally a client will borrow from a lender who doesn't accept AAT and again I wonder if I should join the IFA just to ease things, but I can't bring myself to do it as it's just not as well respected a qualification, and I don't see the point in racking up yet more subscription fees.
At the end of the day, I'm an accountant. Even though the AAT defines me as a "technician," I feel that if I respect the AAT then I ought not to get another qualification just to tick the box that says "accountant" but to stand my ground that AAT does make me a qualified accountant.
Anyway, I'm less of an accountant these days and more of a tax advisor. I've discovered I'm not that excited by accountancy, and that tax is where it's at. One day I hope to be a CTA and thus I really won't need the IFA ;-)
Ahh okay, no CCAB membership in the offing yet then so my auditing comment is irrelevant.
I totally agree with you on the 'Accountant' definition. I just wonder if, from a vanity / appearances point of view, being 'Joe Bloggs MAAT, AFA' with a letterhead which describes membership of both the AAT and IFA might look a bit more appealing. I certainly think it'd look good on a CV, though that's not really a concern for me at the moment.0 -
Anyway, I'm less of an accountant these days and more of a tax advisor. I've discovered I'm not that excited by accountancy, and that tax is where it's at. One day I hope to be a CTA and thus I really won't need the IFA ;-)
Sounds very similar to the path I'm heading down
Chartered Tax Adviser sounds okay I think!
Just need to get ATT done first, am doing personal tax in May and the e assesments in summer followed by option in November.0 -
I totally agree with you on the 'Accountant' definition. I just wonder if, from a vanity / appearances point of view, being 'Joe Bloggs MAAT, AFA' with a letterhead which describes membership of both the AAT and IFA might look a bit more appealing. I certainly think it'd look good on a CV, though that's not really a concern for me at the moment.
Appealing to whom? Clients, or your vanity?
I'm not being rude or flippant; having been in business for myself for 7 years, I can honestly say less than 5% of clients give a stuff what letters are after my name. Therefore it all comes down to your perception of it, not anyone else's.
It's only really vanity that makes me contemplate membership of the IFA - and if it had any major benefit to my business I would apply in a shot. But it doesn't.
Worth pondering some more before departing with your hard-earned, methinks
I think any employer who knows their accountancy qualifications wouldn't be any more impressed with IFA membership over or as well as AAT.0 -
Completely agree with Monsoon.
Having been running my own practice for 14 years this year,most of my clients don't know or aren't interested in letters after my name and its very rare that I make use of it. As long as you are competant and pro active with your clients interests first and foremost then they really don't care about the letters.
As far as lenders that don't recognise AAT these really are few and far between.0 -
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I was pretty surprised when IFA got 'promoted' to full IFAC membership. They have virtually no standing or recognition in the profession. They have obviously been working very hard behind the scenes and fair play to them.
I did look into joining them many moons ago when I first started my practice and had the usual hang-up over just being a 'technician'. With time you realise clients couldn't care less.
However, if IFA were ever granted a Royal Charter then maybe worth a look..
Don't think they could ever qualify though.0 -
The Institute of Financial Accountants has a route to Associate membership (designatory letters AFA) based solely on the Accreditation of Prior Learning: http://www.ifa.org.uk/members/new-members/routes-to-membership/
An Associate member describes his or herself as an ‘Incorporated Financial Accountant’, and can apply for a practicing certificate.
I know this because about five or six years ago a friend of mine, who at the time was running an accounts and tax return franchise, applied for and obtained AFA status based solely on the Accreditation of Prior Learning. He’s never sat an accounts or tax exam in his life, nor does he intend to.
To be fair, he’s a decent enough qualified-by-experience accounts and tax return preparer, and a jolly good bloke, but an IFAC-recognised accountant?
Personally, I’ll never accept a so-called accounting qualification that can be gained solely by experience as being the equivalent of the AAT. To think that the IFA view our AAT qualification as junior to theirs simply beggars belief, in my opinion.
I was concerned when the AAT and the IFA were talking to each other, about five or so years ago, about the possible creation of a joint qualification structure. Thankfully, nothing has been heard about this since.
For those who enjoy collecting letters after their name, then go ahead and join the Institute of Financial Accountants, or any of the other bodies of ‘accountants’ who issue full membership based on experience, and of course a membership fee.
For the rest of us, remember that we’re already qualified accountants — proven by both examination and certified experience.0 -
I know this because about five or six years ago a friend of mine, who at the time was running an accounts and tax return franchise, applied for and obtained AFA status based solely on the Accreditation of Prior Learning. He’s never sat an accounts or tax exam in his life, nor does he intend to.
Really? I thought the AFA status wasn't obtainable through APL. Last time I looked, an AAT qualified could only become a Dip. FA, which is the level below AFA.
But yeah - I can't say I disagree with your sentiments there...0 -
I can only wholeheartedly echo deanshepherd's and Craig_G's comments and would like to add to Monsoon's insofar as - "most" employers, of any note, would dismiss the IFA qualification as being either a "non-qualification" (= unqualified) - actually prejudicing your chances of being considered for the job. I am sure there will be exceptions but usually recruiters have an idea of what is and is not. The AAT, however, although they may be consider it to be a "lower" accountancy qualification, would in virtually all instances at least be recognised/acceptable.0
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Old (and good) discussion on it here, too
http://forums.aat.org.uk/showthread.php?22247-Institute-of-Financial-Accountants0 -
I note that the AAT now provides a direct route to MAAT status for full members of the Institute of Financial Accountants, apparently without the need for sitting — let alone passing — a single AAT exam, just an online professional competence test (PCT) and one year's relevant work experience: http://www.aat.org.uk/content/item121713/#ifa
I am very concerned at the wording used in the opening paragraph (my emphasis):Joining AAT from IFA
You can also join AAT as a full member if you are fully qualified with IFA, or hold full IFA membership.
To start the process, please send us your details to receive your AAT full member application pack. These are the steps you will need to take once you receive it:
Step 1: online registration
Use our online registration process to start your application. We will then forward your AAT number, application form and 'work experience and reference' form within five working days.
Step 2: work experience and professional reference
Complete your 'work experience and reference' form and have it signed off by your employer (or a qualified accountant if you're self employed). Your completed form will:- confirm that you've proven your competence in the workplace where elements of the AAT syllabus aren't covered by your IFA qualifications
- show you've gained 1 year's relevant work experience (or the equivalent part time)
- provide details of the professional referee recommending you for full membership.
Step 3: application and payment
Complete and return your application form, along with:- your completed 'work experience and reference' form
- evidence of your IFA qualifications/exemptions
- a payment of £167 to cover your one-off admission (£45) and subscription fees (£128).
Step 4: professional competence test (PCT)
You'll choose a date to sit your online PCT when you return your application form. Your employer will need to enter an access code confirming your identity, and provide a quiet space and computer for you to use.
The IFA website has a 'Routes to Membership' page http://www.ifa.org.uk/members/new-members/routes-to-membership/ which states:Find the route that works for you
The Institute recognises there are many ways of acquiring knowledge and proving competence which may be proven in different ways. As a consequence IFA provides three flexible routes to membership:- By IFA qualification
- By professional recognition, where recognition is given to other relevant qualifications already held
- By accreditation of prior learning, where workplace experience is evaluated (available in the UK only).
On the same IFA web page there's a link to their 'APL Assessment Checklist': http://www.ifa.org.uk/images/files/APL%20Assessment%20Checklist.doc. Simply tick most of the experience boxes, obtain the counter-signature of either an employer (if in employment) or a professional peer (if self-employed), and bingo — you're an Incorporated Financial Accountant.
Okay, to obtain full membership of IFA based on workplace experience requires five years' relevant experience rather than just one — but isn't exaggeration of experience a possible risk area? I suspect that it is.
It cannot possibly be right that there's a route to fully-qualified AAT membership based solely on work experience, can it?
The irony is, this apparent back-door to MAAT status is made available to members of an Institute who view us exam-qualified MAATs and FMAATs as mere Technicians, unworthy of the title of Incorporated Financial Accountant without passing their Institute's final-level exams — the same exams that their own full members don't even need to sit if they can't be bothered doing so.
You couldn't make it up.0 -
Thanks for the heads-up Craig.
Have you raised this issue with the AAT?
It does concern me that someone can APL their way into a first qualificiation and then by virtue of that gain entry of ours. I can understand ACCA and ICAEW members getting straight into MAAT, but not from an APL body.
Will they be taking ICPA members as MAATs next? No disrespect to the ICPA, but I have heard that the entry route is similar to "Simply tick most of the experience boxes, obtain the counter-signature of either an employer (if in employment) or a professional peer (if self-employed), and bingo."
Any MAAT should have passed exams, end of. Accepting IFAs who have passed exams, fine. Accepting IFAs who have APL'ed into the profession? No.0 -
I've emailed the AAT about it.
Blimey. I can't believe that it'd be possible, but I read the above the same as you both do. Keep us posted on the response from the AAT Monsoon!
I have to say, I gained AAT membership using the 'Part Qualified' route having passed all of the ACA Professional Stage exams and even doing that I did feel almost as though I was cheating the system. (I've since helped one of my colleagues with her AAT studies I'm satisfied that the ACA exams I've passed are a suitable alternative to the AAT exams).
However, I've worked in the profession for nearly ten years and, if I had done so with no formal training (in the form of my ACA studies) I can't imagine I'd have even one-third of the knowlege or skills that any MAATs do. The notion that I could still have potentially been granted AAT full membership (indirectly) and be calling myself Mike James MAAT IFA having had no formal training (or worse; having had the formal training but failed all of the exams) is farsical! I very much hope this doesn't devalue the AAT qualification.0 -
Will do.Keep us posted on the response from the AAT Monsoon!
If anyone else is concerned, you should email membershipsupport@aat.org.uk
Commenting on the forum is not going to register your opinion as strong as contacting them direct.0 -
Will do.
If anyone else is concerned, you should email membershipsupport@aat.org.uk
Commenting on the forum is not going to register your opinion as strong as contacting them direct.
I'm suprised you don't have a petition up Monsoon :001_tongue:
I'd sign it
Regards
Dean0 -
I'm furious about this I worked very hard to pass all my exams and I feel being AAT is a respected qualification I now feel cheated what was the point in all that hard work0
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Firstly, apologies for the broken link in my posting above — I wasn't aware that the AAT were about to launch their redesigned website the next day. Here's the updated link: http://www.aat.org.uk/membership/fully-qualified-routes-aat-full-membership?qt-tabs_page=6#qt-tabs_page
I attended the AGM of the Glasgow branch just over a week ago, where we were joined by the current President, Hilary Lindsay. Unfortunately at the time I wasn't aware of this potential threat to our qualification and reputation, or else I would certainly have taken the opportunity to raise this issue with her in person.
I'm glad that others share my concerns, and have taken it upon themselves to contact the AAT about the matter.
If we receive any response, I suspect that they'll point to Step three - application and payment: 'Complete and return your application form, along with evidence of your IFA qualifications/exemptions'. This is an opportunity to weed out IFA members who aren't exam qualified.
My concern is, are the AAT actually aware of the risk of APL 'accountants' gaining MAAT status, and know to be on their guard for such applications? I fear not.
If they were, wouldn't it be made clear and unambiguous that only success in (at least) comparable examinations, along with the requisite practical experience, will be sufficient to attain MAAT status? I would have hoped so, but it's not.
I don't want to give the impression that I've got some sort of vendetta against the IFA and their members — I don't — but either you're level 4 exam/assessment qualified or you're not. I am, and I don't want to share membership of the AAT with those who haven't made the same investment of time and money, and who haven't had their ability tested — successfully — to the same standard.0 -
I'm furious about this I worked very hard to pass all my exams and I feel being AAT is a respected qualification I now feel cheated what was the point in all that hard work
Agreed. So:Will do.
If anyone else is concerned, you should email membershipsupport@aat.org.uk
Commenting on the forum is not going to register your opinion as strong as contacting them direct.0 -
I've just realised.
My brilliant QBE accountant is studying AAT now because she wants to (level 3, I think she's bored to tears half the time, but she's looking forward to level 4).
I could sign her off through APL into the IFA. Then I can sign her off into the AAT via the IFA route. She can ditch her studies. (No, we won't do this - unless she fails her exams. Kidding - but SCARY as it's arguably a possibility?! The entry route, not the exam fails, I have every faith in her)
What a farce
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Interesting thread! I was thinking of going for IFA after AAT but saw it is as pointless as in my opinion AAT is more valuable and recognised.
It's nice to know that IFA's can apply for full MAAT status but an MAAT wouldn't be able to apply for full IFA status (unless I have missed something (?!).0
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